Structural steel sections & profile manager

[Anonymous]

Assuming that I'd get a chance to test ArchiCAD in a project... (Been only looking at the demo for a few hours and it looks quite appealing, I must say.)

How does one - in real world - (i) create and (ii) manage even a modest selection of steel sections? Is there something in the profile manager I don't get?

I mean: if I have the standard hot rolled sections from channels to IPE & HE A/B/C, stock sizes of RHS, SHS and RHS etc., is there an efficient way to store & select sizes? Can the profile be a parametric object?

[Anonymous]

Djordje wrote:

At the cost of endangering my life, I will reveal the secret of initiation:

Sit for an hour with someone who knows Archicad.

I used to know ArchiCAD. I implemented it into a number of architectural firms. I wrote tens of GDL objects. I even was supposed to be the national tech support of an ArchiCAD distributor, but because he thought bs was enough for the handful of users, this did not amount to a hill of beans.

Whatever, I bailed out from the ArchiCAD business when Graphisoft appointed another, even worse, distributor in the country in question.

Right. It was over 15 years ago. I was, however, "initiated" 20 years ago: in a small Apple dealership in another country, they had a demo of something called ArchiCAD, running off a diskette in a Mac 512. That demo confirmed my theories. Please do not tell me I have been wrong for all these years.

[Anonymous]

Right. I was wrong, at least as comes to objects using "Beam" option. (Not Beam object.) In one of only 20 or so obscure dialogs, with incomprehensible and well-hidden options, you can indeed emulate the behaviour of a Beam. Visually.

IFC is still "Undefined" and does not seem to be able to be "defined".


In the MAD Finnish parlance, a steel beam is internally classified as a "spatial accessory". ("AR 133 Tilavaruste"). Fancy that. Useless & pointless.

Other than for doing useful work or getting help from users, ArchiCAD seems to be most impressive...

(OK. I'll go and buy a yellow robe.)

[Anonymous]

This is confusing.

In the "Tree View" of the IFC-menu, the said objects appear to be correctly classified. In the "Edit Object" -dialog's IFC-section they are "Undefined".

I guess have to assume that they are OK in export! The (perceived?) main problem has therefore been solved.

I still can't get object-columns to be raked, but even I don't normally have things like that. The Profile Manager surely can handle such exceptional situations.

Overall I'm impressed!

[__archiben]

Petri wrote:
I still can't get object-columns to be raked, but even I don't normally have things like that. The Profile Manager surely can handle such exceptional situations.

at what angle does a column become a beam i wonder?

regardless - for anything other than vertical, you can use a 'column-profile beam' object and incline it . . .

glad you're chilling a bit and finding out what archicad can do!

~/archiben

[Anonymous]

~/archiben wrote:

at what angle does a column become a beam i wonder?

regardless - for anything other than vertical, you can use a 'column-profile beam' object and incline it . . .

Good points. The latter would be quite acceptable (maybe slightly confusing in its own way) if I only knew how to apply an arbitrary IF-class.

Chilling? Not sure yet. I'm trying to, I'm trying to!

It's just that the beam & column objects and tools are basically exactly what I need and have wanted.

(I have sort-of-acceptable DYI-objects for these purposes in VectorWorks, but far from ideal as they were written in a hurry for a project, then modified for another one and so on. The column especially is clunky while the beam actually has certain superior features - among inferior ones.)

[__archiben]

Petri wrote:
... if I only knew how to apply an arbitrary IF-class.

GDL objects already belong to an IF class based on their subtype. if i'm reading the manual correctly, they are automatically assigned that class on export . . ?

[__archiben]

and a quick check of a universal column subtype reveals it to be in the Model Element>Building Element>Column subtype . . . just like a the 'real' column tool columns . . .

[__archiben]

make a quick steel/column object model and export as IFC to check once and for all . . . ? there are several free IFC 'viewer' applications . . .

i think it's a case of IFC being integrated at such a low level that it just works. you're over-complicating the process by going to look for it! and jumping up and down abusing the power users trying help isn't the best way of solving the problem either, eh?! 😉

although - it would be nice if the IF class of an objects subtype was revealed in the object's tool dialogue IFC pane . . .

hope it works out . . .
~/archiben

[Anonymous]

~/archiben wrote:
make a quick steel/column object model and export as IFC to check once and for all . . . ?

I surely would if I only could. The demo mode does not allow exporting.

Anyway, while in 99% of cases, the "built-in" IFC-assignments are fine, there still should be a mechanism for arbitrary classification. A beam used as a raked column, a wall used as a beam or a balustrade and so on.

Mind you, this is very easy in VectorWorks... (No, I don't want to discuss the matter here. Suffice to say, I obviously again have to decide between (a) a very high level of flexibility and then make do without some important features and (b) a very high level of functionality, with little, if any, flexibility.)

and jumping up and down abusing the power users trying help isn't the best way of solving the problem either, eh?

No, but neither is it the best way to entice members to the Cult to tell a prospective new devotee that the Scriptures say "in our church you don't do what you need to do, only what you are told to do". Even if you call yourself a Guru. (Usually people who call themselves gurus are anything but.)

it would be nice if the IF class of an objects subtype was revealed in the object's tool dialogue IFC pane

Yes. One wonders what's it for... You don't see the IF class of some objects, you can't change it for any. What's the point, what's the b*dy point, as Basil Fawlty would once again say.

EDIT

About the Cult of ArchiCAD:

Djordje wrote:
Now if you'll excuse me, even deities can't escape the mobs, gotta hide ...

Well, I'm not really sure if I'd enjoy this Jim Jones -style in the long run.

For all devoted users of ArchiCAD, I'd recommend Kenzaburo Oe's (Nobel Prize in Literature 1994) novel "Somersault". You'll find both Djordje and Tom Waltz there.

EDIT 2
No doubt, there is also a Cult of VectorWorks, a Cult of AutoCAD, a Cult of Revit and a Cult of Whatever-You-Use. Not to mention cults of Macintosh, Windows, Linux or Derwent Colour Pencils.

[Anonymous]

~/archiben wrote:
at what angle does a column become a beam i wonder?

I don't know. In reality, a beam cannot be used as a column.

Not because of IFC, but because of the user interface.

Well, the latter may change in my perception when I get used to the robe of Hare ArchiCAD and prostrate myself at the feet of The Guru. (Not likely.)

OK. In ArchiCAD you simply cannot have raked columns that would be translated as IFC-columns. Moving to the next Crucial, Essential and Paramount Issue in our next exciting episode in the chilling serial What ArchiCAD Cannot Do.