Three Buttons for One Tool - Sections, Elevations + Int Elev

[Eduardo Rolon]

Three tools for the same procedure, might it have not been better to create a tag to choose from in the S/E tool panel?

I.E. group with:

• elevations
  sections
  interior elevations

____
Imagine how I will teach this 3 tools to my next group of students in their AC class.

Professor- For elevations you have to use this tool, For sections this one and For IntElev this one.

Student- But aren't these three things the same just with different settings, WHY are they different tools?

Professor- Because GS in their Infinite Wisdom decided that we needed special icons for each

Student- OOOOOOOOOKKKK…, If I make a mistake and I choose the wrong one (because of a copy) is there a button to change it to the other type?

Professor- No, you will need to erase the previous one and create a new one

Student- Why?

Professor- Because GS in their Infinite Wisdom decided that we needed special icons for each

Student- And in how did it work before? Weren't you able to create sections and Interior Elevations?

Professor- It was one tool were a section was called "SECTION", an elevation was called "ELEVATION" and an interior elevation was called "INTERIOR ELEVATION" each with its own marker.

Student- And that procedure does not work anymore?

Professor- Yes it still does

Student- Then, Why create separate icons for what is essentially the same tool?

Professor- Because GS in their Infinite Wisdom decided that we needed special icons for each

Student- Isn't Autodesk the only one that puts new icons for the same commands and calls it an UPGRADE?

Professor- Not anymore…

[Anonymous]

TomWaltz wrote:
Getting back to topic.... the more I think about it, the more and changing my mind and starting to agree that the section, interior elevation, elevation, and possibly even isometrics/cameras could all be combined into one tool... I think my objection was to it being a "Section" tool. I think it would be better called a Live Model View tool or something to that effect, that lets you create either linework or rendered views from a single view point. This would also allow the "skewed elevations" that I've seen requested for sloping walls and would allow <gasp!> real ceiling plans since you could possible rotate the cut to look upward.

I agree (and have argued in favor) that some tool consolidation is in order. This is (paradoxically?) essential to continue the proliferation of special purpose tools (Stair, Skylight, Wall End, Grid, etc...). We need general categories of tools under which these specialized ones can be organized.

Examples:

1. Polygonal Tools: Floors, roofs and meshes are very similar in function and could be subtypes of a general polygonal modeling tool. This would provide the place to put a new ceiling tool (which I could really use right now!), a floor finish tool, a site modeler, perhaps a tensile roof tool, and so on.

2. Openings: Doors and windows are identical in all but name and should be interchangeable. They should also be able to be inserted in a wall or be freestanding (like skylights). We also need similar opening types for floors (stairwells, shaftways, etc.) and ceilings (lighting, HVAC).

3. Views: Like Tom said. I like the separation of the section and elevation tools but they should also be interchangeable. I also very much like the Worksheet even though it is identical to the Detail tool in all but name (I am using it very heavily right now). Eventually (I hope) we will be adding the Floor Plan, Ceiling Plan, Enlarged Plan, and annotated 3D views and we will need a nice place to put them. (I still see the model organized into stories but I want view types for how I look at them).

...other tool categories:

4. Drafting & Linework: 'nuff said?

5. Zones: These are special. Nothing else (so far) in the program represents space and function, just stuff.

6. Annotations: Including a decent label tool 😉

7. Fixtures & Furnishings: The discrete parts now drawn with the "chair tool"

8. Systems: HVAC, plumbing, electrical...

This is an interesting exercise, coming up with a comprehensive set of general BIM tool categories. I wish I had more time to think it through.

[TomWaltz]

Matthew wrote:
6. Annotations: Including a decent label tool 😉 .

Oh come on... the Label Tool works great if you write all your own Label objects!

[Anonymous]

TomWaltz wrote:

Matthew wrote:
6. Annotations: Including a decent label tool 😉 .

Oh come on... the Label Tool works great if you write all your own Label objects!

If you don't mind typing everything into one line fields in the settings dialog. Unless you've written something that allows live text entry into custom labels. 😉

[TomWaltz]

Matthew wrote:

TomWaltz wrote:

Matthew wrote:
6. Annotations: Including a decent label tool 😉 .

Oh come on... the Label Tool works great if you write all your own Label objects!

If you don't mind typing everything into one line fields in the settings dialog. Unless you've written something that allows live text entry into custom labels. 😉

Read the ID of the element, suffixes, prefixes, read from a text file, etc....

[Eduardo Rolon]

What are the odds that GS will change this?

I am betting that we will see a Uniform consolidated UI somewhere around AC 20

remember that the more buttons you have the better the software is.

[Anonymous]

TomWaltz wrote:
Read the ID of the element,

15 characters

suffixes, prefixes,

???

read from a text file,

Great if you need it, a pain when you just need to type a quick note

etc....

What else?

I know about and have done the text file and ID solutions - curious about the others. They are still not a complete substitute for a properly designed tool. I'm sure you know the difficulties of writing a proper label - strange things.

[TomWaltz]

Matthew wrote:

suffixes, prefixes,

???

So you can add text to the beginning or the end of the element ID.

read from a text file,

Great if you need it, a pain when you just need to type a quick note

That's what parameters are all about. If you want a quick note, use a quick note. If you want to retrieve keynote number 14.202, you can do that too 😉

etc....

What else?

I can't give away all my secrets 😉

I got the labels to finally behave once I figured out the placement array values. I'm really happy with the tool... after writing more objects than I care to think about!

How anyone in their right mind (yes, asserting that I'm not) can get anything out of it, I'll never know. I think it's on GS to provide much better label objects and leader location control before the tool is really worth anything out of the box,

[Rick Thompson]

ejrolon wrote:
Naah, we used to change the point, it really messed people up.

We just took the plastic ink cartridge thing out, drill out the bottom end of the point, and they were great to hide long skinny paper things in... great way to go to class.


On the topic... I rarely start a project from scratch, but modify an existing one.. so all my section/elevations come into AC11 as sections. Why bother to open the elevation tool? I have yet to see any need to even look at it. At least with the work environment manager you can just leave it off and forget it is there.

[Eduardo Rolon]

Agreed!

My opinion here is that GS spent time "fixing" something that was not "broke" and the fix was not thought out. AFAIK nobody was asking to separate those options in to three tools, the work around was very simple it was learning to use the tool.

So out of a 12 month shipping cycle, estimate 9 months coding and three month alpha and beta test. How much did GS spent coding a tool for a problem that did not exist? Why was it not enough to give the ability to sort in the tool palette as a pull down menu? Wasn't there other stuff that was more important (like the grid tool addon or C4D integration)?

My last project had 8 elevations, 10 sections and 475 interior elevations and I had no problem keeping it organized. Does the new tool change the way I did it? Probably not since for me the lack of control of the "new" Int Elev tool outweighs its usefulness, same goes for the grid tool and stairmaker.

[TomWaltz]

To me, the one nice thing about the interior elevation tool is that it groups elevations by room... I always had problems with people not number them correctly as sections and they would sort all over the place.