Quantity and Cost estimation from ArchiCAD

[Narendra]

Dear All,

Quantity and Cost estimation from ArchiCAD (Compared with Cigraph’ s Archiquant add-on and Vicco Office).

I do not know estimation practices fellow ArchiCAD users are using. But I, in our country expect quantity and cost estimates of components required in elements and objects (walls, beams, etcetera along with GDL Objects). The reason is rates of components vary with elements at various locations.

I would expect volume of wood, number of hardware pieces, area of glass and number of carpenters along with respective costs when estimating a wooden door. (* “Cigraph’ s Archiquant” add-on can do this)

I have tried to search this solution to my problem of detailed component level cost estimation for more than one and half decade from Graphisoft, user-forums, my software dealers, and many others.

This is about finding quantity and cost estimation through ArchiCAD, without any success.

Cigraph and its CEO Istvan Toth gave me some relief for what I had wanted. However, Cigraph has collapsed and hence I am back to the square one.

“ArchiCAD calculation module” of ArchiCAD has not changed for one and half decade and I do not think any practice depends on it for its failure to calculate from all the properties like the width height volumes surfaces parameters in elements and gdl objects. The report format of the same is worst, and no one can program it to a desired format.

The question remains if there is any solution to detailed cost estimation which will give quantity and cost estimates of components from the ArchiCAD model.

In India this is very much required.

In India we grossly depend on “schedule of rates” prepared by government departments, and they are a good database and that they are backed by analysis of component quantities of the listed items of buildings.

Many software companies in India and abroad have created software that link building elements like walls, beams columns to the database items of the district schedule of rates from Revit. But it is sad that no one has developed such linking which Cigraph provided.

Now with the end of Cigraph, future of above-described estimation in detail from ArchiCAD faces a dead wall.

Someone from Graphisoft -Hong Kong office suggested me a software but that to had linking to Autodesk products only.

I remember Graphisoft had prepared a 6D estimation module sometime in 2006 which I presume was handed over to Vicco. Does it work with ArchiCAD in the original way? But I presume it is extremely expensive and hence un-affordable to small practices like ours. What is opinion of the fellow architects?

In short, Will someone guide me so that I can generate detailed quantity and cost estimates either from ArchiCAD or any other third-party software makers who can link data of ArchiCAD?

Architect Narendra Suryavanshi-ArchiCAD User, Designer and Owner

[Barry Kelly]

---

@Narendra wrote:

Besides No body has time to do manual calculations after working in AC to produce 3D model which is a digital twin of the actual.

---

If it was a true digital twin, then you would already have the quantities.

i.e. if you have modelled each wall stud, then you can just schedule a count of them.

But if you have just drawn a framed wall, you will need to create a property with an expression - something like wall length divided by stud spacing plus one = number of studs in a wall.

That is basically what the old list scheme did (still does but not for new element types).

The old list scheme property objects could do many calculations on the same wall all in one go.

Now we must create a separate property with an expression for each calculation and associate that property to a classification which the element is classified as.

We can then schedule those properties to get the quantities.

Costs on those quantities is another matter entirely.

I think it could be done with the old list scheme and a database.

I think the database was external to the file so it could be maintained and applied to may files, but I never got that far so I am not sure.

You would not want to build costs into the property expressions, as that would be super hard to maintain.

Barry.

[mthd]

Hi @Narendra I did so for relatively straight forward housing projects more than 3 decades ago. Once you have done a 1000 or more of them you seem to get the knack. Last QS&E job was about 15 years ago. I did use CA and XL together from about 1999 onwards. Before that it was all by hand. 

I certainly don’t have any time for manual calculations after 3D modeling in AC lol !

I can model a relatively simple home in 1/2 the time with CA. But when the design gets more complex it’s better to use AC. When I was in Tech in the mid 80’s ACAD was in its infancy.

Let’s see if RIO in AC is taken up in the future as shown on the RM. Be good if they have a way of calculating reinforcement in AC?? That could make our work easier maybe ?

[Narendra]

Hello Barry,

If it was a true digital twin, then you would already have the quantities. - TRUE

That is basically what the old list scheme did (still does but not for new element types). -TRUE.

Even new the "properties and classification" cannot pass many tests.

Does this mean that we have faced dead wall? 

I repeat somehow the Cigraph's Archiquant passed many tests.

[Barry Kelly]

---

@Narendra wrote:

Does this mean that we have faced dead wall? 

---

No.

We just need to create a property with the correct expression to quantify what we need.

Don't get me wrong, it will be a lot of work to do it properly.

Just as it was a lot of work to get the old list scheme property objects working.

And an expression in my file with my attributes may not work in your file with your attributes (i.e wall names will be different).

Barry.

[Botonis]

I have created a wish about Archiquant Plus some time ago.

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Wishes/Cigraph-Archiquantplus/m-p/358750

For the moment I am using ACCA's Primus IFC because it has the same mentality with Archiquant Plus. Both made in Italy so they have used the italian approach which worked perfectly with Archicad.

The fact that I have to export to another software for me is crucial and a big compromise because the BIM information is already in Archicad and it is like you cannot use it properly and inside Archicad to produce a complete cost calculation.

[Botonis]

Just wanted to clarify that Archiquant Plus was using the list function also but in an optimized way of filtering and schedulind. Istvan had informed me that they used a kind of AI to accelerate the calculations and indeed they were succesful! 

[Narendra]

YES!

I was closely working with Istvan during development of Archiquant24! I even beta-tested it.

Although I had started using Archiquant since Version 23, I was very happy with the Archiquant due to the integration of selected items in any cost databases and ease of assignment of properties (Specs or Items) to Elements in ArchiCAD. 

Irony is we haven't found a solution to Quantification and Estimation Issue past Archiquant on this forum after my post! I haven't stopped wondering as to how no one on the Forum has suggested any solution. How are ArchiCAD users managing estimations? 

Even GS partners in India who claim that they have communicated my issue to the GS haven't replied anything which could become solution. Is GS not bothered??

Even Revit partners in India are pursuing me to adopt it and say goodbye to ArchiCAD. I have asked them for a demo. Let's see! 

After your suggestion of ACCA's Primus IFC I have communicated with them. But they also do not import directly from .PLN files. How are you managing with ACCA's Primus IFC?  Please respond. 

What is your opinion on Central Innovations' API?

Regards,

Narendra

[Narendra]

I was lucky enough to buy a license for the updated version of Archiquant Plus 25 and realized that this addon was the most valuable investment for  Archicad as it upgraded the scheduling capabilitied and added realtime cost management with a fantastic UI. Cigraph did the most advanced addon for scheduling and cost calqulation!!!!!!

If indeed Cigraph is closing, Graphisoft should discuss with Cigraph and continue and evolve this addon to be added in the core Archicad like Ecodesigner and MEP modeler.

Your above post is more than one year old. But GS or other Add-on makers have not looked into this.

[Botonis]

I had also contacted Graphisoft Italia but they never responded.

[mthd]

Hi, I got an email about an exclusive webinar to take place on the 20th Feb 2024 from GS Asia. About the 5D quantification process in AC. Did you get an invitation to attend ? It might help you out ?

Yes I most definitely agree that GS should develop something even better than the Cigraph Archiquant system add on.