What causes duplicate attributes (1) ?

[Stefan Videnov]

After 10 years of experience, reading everything I can find and also watching The Dark Side of Attribute Chaos I still can't figure something to the end.

What are all the scenarios in which attribute dupplicates are created?

The context is teamwork and hotlinks. I know of some cases, but this certainly doesn't explain all of the dupplicates that I am getting. I know that dupplicates appear both when importing attributes and when updating hotlinks. I would love to understand all the causes and whether the causes vary by the type of attribute.

Thank you! ❤️ 

Operating system used: Windows 6008

[Barry Kelly]

Attributes will be duplicated if an attribute with the same name exists in both files but the actual index numbers for those attributes is different.

It thinks there is a new attribute, but they can't have the same name, so the new one is appended with (1).

Archicad really doesn't care about the name, it is all about the index number.

If the index numbers are the same but they are actually different attributes with different names, only one will survive.

Attribute management can be a nightmare.

You really need to maintain a template where all new attributes are created and then imported into all other files.

If you are copying & pasting or hotlinking between files, you should try to keep all attribute synchronised with your template or master file.

Barry.

[Lingwisyer]

When working with Hotlinks I suggest to only ever create and import attributes from a single file. Whether this be a dedicated attribute file, project template or your master file. In this way there is a single common source of attributes for every file in the project. I am pretty sure this method was brought up in one of the attribute management webinars.

Ling.

[Nathan Hildebrandt]

Another way Attributes are created can be through loading a library that includes a Master.GDL object. This will create its own Attributes on loading this into a project. It will also create Attributes when you copy and paste elements from a file that includes a Master.GDL - even if you do not copy/paste elements that include those specific additional Attributes.

[Stefan Videnov]

Hi Nathan,

Can you explain on what are Master.GDL objects and where do they come from?

[Stefan Videnov]

In my experience when I import a module dupplicates do not get created, because archicad uses the existing attribute by Name, not by index. Am i getting this right?
This leaves the following scenarios for creating dupplicates (you are describing the first 2 I believe):
- Appending attributes with the Att Manager  
- Overwriting attributes by index, when the name exists
- Overwriting attributes when the attributes are not reserved
- Something from Master GDLs (what @Nathan Hildebrandt mentioned)

[Erik Bjornhage]

There was a post a while back where @scottjm posted a very helpful graphic.

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Project-data-BIM/Mass-Re-index-Attributes/td-p/371259

Apart from that I would add to @Lingwisyer and say that when you start a project that you know will contain modules, you need to decide if you are going to use Bottom-Up or Top-Down when it comes to Attributes. I prefer Top-Down, but it is not always logicl.

What I mean is that Top-Down = All new attributes are created in the MainModel-file (Master-file or whatever you want to call it), then propagated down to each individual PLN that creates the modules. That way you have a "true" file, and any confilicts will have to adapt to that.

Bottom-Up is the opposite, new attributes are created in individual PLN-files that are the modules and then propagated upwards to the main file. this works in some cases but tends to get incredibly messy and requires considerably more attention and management.

[Nathan Hildebrandt]

Here is one of the several posts on Master.GDL objects.

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Libraries-objects/Unwanted-Master-GDL-in-the-libraries/td-p/4003...

Basically they are created by someone that wants to create attributes that are used by objects in their libraries. Most of them come from manufacturers, where they use the master.gdl to create surfaces for their products so they appear correctly in the model.

They are one of the most frustrating things to deal with in Archicad.

[Gerry Leonor]

not necessarily a duplicate attribute per se, but i did notice that if a placed object is calls up a Fill & the there is nothing that matches match an already existing Fill name, it creates it.

& the Fill it creates has an italicised name for some reason.

edit:

i tried re-associating the fill in the object settings, but because this doesn't seem to be adjustable, it always re-creates the Masking fill every time i try & delete-and-replace the rogue attribute.

to be fair, it's a very old object -- the (Australian) OneSteel library from decades ago...

[Barry Kelly]

This is a bit like attributes created in a Master_GDL file.

The difference is a Master_GDL file is loaded but as it is not an object you place, all attributes are created, whether you want them or not.

Attributes defined in a object will not be created until the object is actually used.

Any attributes you see that are in italic text or underlined, are not default attributes of your file and can not be deleted until you track down and delete the source file/object.

One thing I have found that helps though is to create an attribute in your file that has the same name.

If the attribute exists with the same name in the file then the loaded Master_GDL or object file will not create a new attribute, because it thinks it already exists.

Attributes created from these files do not have an index number (until they are created).

So they go by the name first, and if the attribute exists, they will not be created.

At least that has been my experience in the past.

Barry.