Zones and schedules net and gross area

[miki_vukcevic]

Hi everyone,

I would like a help with creating schedules regarding net and gross area. 

In my country net area is a floor area inside walls, and gross area is all building area outside wall or slab reference line. I draw a zone (red zone on the right in first picture)

I'm relatively new to schedules but long time ArchiCAD user, but now I decided it is a time to use ArchiCAD with all its features, and I have seen all types of calculations, but to me it is impossible that ArchiCAD cant do this simple table with Schedules. 

1. This is my floor plan example.

 

Red zone on right is a gross zone what I need to be calculated.

Zones inside floor plan on left side need to have visible just numbers, nothing else, something I have done already.

2. This is what I have achieved so far, but this is just for net areas and not all how I need it.

This is a schedule in general ok sorted in terms or culumn. I need to have Apartment named D1 all rooms group together (sorted with numbers from 01-XX) like in picture above, but I cant achieve living rooms (from 1-9 to get subtotal) and terace ( 8,9 subtotal) than full D1 total. Last row perimeter must not have total calculated.

Also I have Communications and Staircase zone not in right places in schedule- they need to be at bottom at the end of all apartments with zone numbers etc 01 for communications and 02 for staircase and total for that 2 zones, just for communications and staircase of net area.

3. At the end I search for table to look like this. 

I exploded my schedule and manually did all the work to show you what I need as final result (but just for D1, and I also need for J1, J2, but as for now I didnt do that because of lack of time, but this shows the point) 

It is important to have this red rows for every apartment from the floor plan (D1, J1, J2) divided and to look like in picture from below, than to have all apartaments + staircase + communications Total net area and at the end Gross area row (marked green).

Maybe I use wrong parametes, wrong fields, wrong everything from the start, but I really need help from someone to get this right in my file and tell me what he did and why so I learn and use that as a template for everything afterwards. Is there any hope for me or I need to to this measures table manually for hours and hours and loose time by drawing lines and text tool manually with calculator in my hands to do the calculations.

ArchiCAD file of the example is attached.

Thank you in advance community.

[miki_vukcevic]

Maybe if I can send zones to excel and than sort everything and design final table, than send back to archicad that is also acceptable.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Sorry that this is consuming so much time and frustration for you!

You can achieve your subtotals by tagging the living vs terrace zones.  I typically group my zones by 'conditioned' (indoor/HVAC spaces) vs 'unconditioned' (outdoor, unheated garage, etc) spaces and subtotal them.

You can achieve your gross area with a separate zone, distinguished by layer/ID/etc. and schedule that zone separately from your net zones.  (The only issue with having overlapping zones is if you schedule doors in a way that you need to say what zone the door opens into, for example, or schedule furniture by which zone it belongs to.)

In your schedule, your can filter by all kinds of things a schedule of just the zones you  want, subtotaled or totaled as you'd like.  You can make as many zone schedules as you need/want.

[miki_vukcevic]

Thank you Karl, this is a much for a start. Now I will try to do youre "trick", but let me be honnest, I'm not sure what exactly to do, because I'm new to schedules.

Yes a lot of time, and frustration and more than 10 years, of zone calculating manually. On some big projects it tooks a day or two just for that, and I did made a mistake in calculations also by manual calculating.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Don't worry, this all seems more complicated than it will seem after you understand your options 🙂

The Archicad user interface has bits of what you need to manage in different places, some slightly hidden I think... but once you know what is available and where to find it, you'll be OK.

Gross and net areas should be totaled in separate schedules (with criteria that select which zones to include based on if they are gross or net area zones).

The easiest first step after looking at your file where you have a zone called Communications for your hallway, is to realize that you can create any number of zones to meet your needs.  [Re-reading your post, it sounds like Communications might be the correct name in your country anyway though.].  In the Zones attribute dialog, just click the New button to create a zone for Hallways, perhaps one for Stair Wells, etc - whatever level of detail you need.

 

Second, as far as grouping and subtotaling, you have the possibility of using the value of the Zone Number, Zone Name, Category Code and Category Name.  The interesting thing about Category Code (which could be anything - numeric or text - to group Zones in the schedules) ... is that you cannot edit it anywhere except the Zone Categories attribute dialog.  There, you can edit it by clicking the Rename... button.  The Category Code is blank for all of the zones in your file.

You could use it to distinguish zones belonging to an apartment/flat from those that are public (halls, lobby, etc), or to distinguish heated/conditioned vs unconditioned space, etc.  Or perhaps a building code reference for the type of space.  Like the name, it is free for you to choose... and then you can group, subtotal, etc by it if you wish.

If you look at the settings for each placed zone, you'll see a number of available Property fields.  These are what I see in the USA version:

 

Any of these can be unlinked from their default 'undefined' value by clicking the first chain button - and then either selecting from a pre-defined option or typing text.  Each of these fields is available in the schedules to both filter (Criteria) which zones appear in the schedule... as well as to simply appear as a data column, or have the corresponding zone areas grouped or subtotaled.

In the screenshot, I unlinked the Property field and selected 'Public' from the drop down... I would use this setting for the hallways, stairwells, lobby etc zones.  For all of the zones within an apartment/flat I would select the 'Private' value.  With just this one property, I could then generate a short schedule comparing net (or gross depending on zone shape) public vs private space along with total area.

Schedules can only subtotal by one field criteria - one grouping/subtotal, then grand total.   Unless there's something I forgot or is new, you can't subtotal within an apartment (living vs terrace), have an overall subtotal for the apartment and then grand totals for all of the apartments in one schedule.

You cannot place any custom text on a subtotal line as you did in your desired mock-up.

You can make subtotal lines taller to make them easier to read.

To have a live schedule like your illustration, you'd have to make several independent schedules and place them on a layout so that they appear together, looking like a single one.  The problem with that of course is if the size of the schedule changes, you have to remember to move them around to line up properly again.

For example, here is a quickie with one tag to group the living vs terrace space of apartment D1 (criteria set to only show D1)... first with the category column visible, and then reduced as small as it can go to hide the grouping column.

I moved the Zone Category Code to the right of Zone Name so that I could 'headline' Zone Name and not have the D1 repeat on every row... but you'll notice the side effect is the two vertical bars for this 'missing' column.  Archicad used to let us set the column width to zero so that only one vertical line appeared here.  I can't set it to less than 2 (whatever the units are) now.

 

 

 

 

[miki_vukcevic]

Dear @Karl Ottenstein,

Now I'm way to closer than before, and THANK YOU for that!

THANK YOU also for writing this long reply with so lot of the information's. As I said and as you mentioned, I have started everything on the wrong foot as I see, and that is confusing me still. Sorry maybe I'm annoying, but also English is not mine native language, so I don't always get the point from the "first ball", or I write something incorrect. 

This is where I'm now.

 

I just used for me the fastest way to achieve the required result.

I recreated zone names (creating new or renaming it in Zone category window) with Assigned number for Zone Category name. So for every room inside apartment I added parameter 01, and for all terrace's I added 02, for Communications (we call it like that) I added 03.

Now my schedule looks like this. Which is not ok. So I added category criteria just to select for apartment D1, J1, J2 ( this means I created 3 schedules). Here is just for D1.

And this is 50% ok for me, because I still do job a lot faster and precise than manually before. 

So to do my job done I place all 3 schedule (J1, J2, D1) and cut the view, and precisely overlap the lines so they look like this.

(I didnt do it for the Communications, because of lack of time, but You got the point)

At the end I need to create another Schedule for gross, and use one more time one of mine schedules, because now it can not calculate total net per apartment - so I will cut just the Total net row and attach it in layout and as I said a one more for total gross and cut it and attach it bellow in layout.

What I also understand is;
1 .That I cant have all job finished with one schedule, and that is 50% ok for me because I'm still finishing job more precise like this than manually as before.

2. Can't have total net and total gross value in same Schedule, so I need to create two and connect them in layout, or maybe I can?

Maybe I missed the point of everything but this I have achieved.

I have asked before and maybe I ask for a too much, but if I'm missing something or something can be done easier and better than this, could You or anyone tell me exactly how, or record screen like a tutorial what "someone" is doing while achieving. So if its possible please delete everything I have done in zones, and please tell me to correct way and easy way what can be achieved with my floor plan and following the my "requested" following result if its possible and If I don't ask too much.

Sorry and thank you Dear Karl for everything already ! 

Because I just want to learn what I see and continue with my primary work- to be architect and design, and now I feel that I need to put mu profession a side and learn and focus on data management and loose time and be IT professional than an architect in the program which main purpose is to make our work easier, and it really do ....but this with measures is just a pain for all architects in the world.

[miki_vukcevic]

I think this is very important subject to any architect or designer in the world, and this must be a top topic for anyone in Developing team in ArchiCAD. I really don't understand why doesn't anyone at Graphisoft  didn't thinked about this, and create a tool or something for this. Because this is a most important thing after design for every Archicitect, and this is Architect software, and we have so much tools inside ArchiCAD but not for measure calculations or we have but it is so much of hassle to do it.

I have proposal and it is so easy to develop this.

They need to leave zone tool as they are now. Than we need an option to right click on the Schedule tool and convert it to table, where we can manually add rows and columns, write custom text and sum button so we can select what to sum.

Or to create a complete new tool with very low options and properties. I will write you now how I wish to look it.

1.  It works like Zones but only with few options:

1.a. Home story (so we can select)

1.b. Room name (possibility to choose or create our predefined or custom text)

1.b. What to calculate: net area (without finish inside wall building material), area or volume (something what we now have in zones)

1.c Floor plan presentation (like we have in zones), what to see on the floor plan (markings of room 01, or ROOM1, or Living room etc.)

In schedules they create a new label under surfaces and call it Building measures and let us:

1. Create a fields or tables like in excel or word and also to draw something with lines and fills.

2. Options what will be in fields or table ( to pick by criteria: apartment ID ( so every room in apartment got listed automatic sorting by name (A-Z, or room assigned numbers), by Stories etc.

So we can let me say create table for all apartments and hallways for 1.Floor under and on same paper add space and create for 2. Floor etc. or create table with listed just Total net 1. Floor + Total net second Floor and bellow for Gross measures.

3, Add us option so we manually arrange table so we even put custom text and SUM OPTION so we sum what we want and what we select in many ways. 

I wrote this as expression of frustration because this is so needed for this software to have and whole world needs this so desperately I believe and now this is a hustle in ArchiCAD, or additional big knowledge or courses of Data Management is needed for this so simple job which every singe project have inside it, and I hope someone with power of change will read this.

Because I searched for months and I never found any post or video that solve this issue correctly, in every one tutorial or post it lacks of possibilities in sorting, summing, total or picking values- every single one is not a complete solution to everyone designer or architect.

Also I made a quick video (in attachment) in excel how I hope it will look like and what architect need, so some parts I must do manually (values) because of Excel and I dont have data to auto fill cells but I hope You will get the point, because I made this video in small amount of time just to show what will be amazing to have and what personally I would like to have to finish my job in a lot faster and precise way, and what ever architect or designer wants. All this now we need to do manually in other programs like here in excel or to use line and draw table in Archicad and fill it with text tool.

Sorry again for maybe confusing video and low English but I think I show the point.

And as a site moderator please tell someone for this issue.

At the bottom because I know I write confusing all point is to have functions from excel to do calculations and table arrangement, we just want from ArchiCAD to provide us possibility to automatic fill the values in our rows and columns by some criteria picked from floor plan from zones or other tool created for this.

Sorry if I'm annoying but I just want to make things easier.

[miki_vukcevic]

Any help with this issue?

[Marc H]

Hi Miki,

Here is how I work with my gross and net zones at a very basic level.  (A bit of a workaround approach as AC does not like mixing zones in the same space.)

I use five aspects of AC in combination: Layers, Model Placement, Zone Categories, Renovation Status, and Property Manager to derive the schedules.

• Layering: Gross Area zones are assigned to a separate layer than net zones (e.g., interior spaces and rooms).  
• Model Placement: I place thin Gross Area zones below the floor.  In this way, they are 'physically' clear of the net zones and all their inventory.  Net zones are modeled at standard, full height. 
• Zone Categories: Each gross and net zone is assigned a Zone Category. (I have a category for gross zones alongside the net categories. While all the categories are all in the same list, they are 'data' and so can be filtered in the schedule criteria.)
• Renovation Status: Each zone is assigned a renovation status.
• Property Manager: Each zone can be given additional data values, which I have found useful in certain circumstances.   (See also Paul Roper's kindly reply to my Demolition Area query by adding property expressions to extend functionality. Solved: Re: Zone Schedule Calculations: Subtraction of 'To... - Graphisoft Community.)

From this structure, one can develop, at minimum, the building Gross Area schedule, and the building Net Areas by Category of the spaces within, sub-totaled as needed.  The Renovation Status can help produce discrete schedules for additions, remodeling, and phasing.

For full space management, especially for very large projects ($$$), one can consider ArchiFM, I believe this was originally developed by GS; now separate: https://graphisoft.com/partner-solutions/archifm.

[ArchiMind]

@miki_vukcevic ,

I know the pain. In our office, we decided to remove terraces and balconies as separate information and give the total net area of the apartment. Mostly when you deal with large-scale projects it would mean having a bunch of schedules so you could visualize numerical data as desired. That is time and resource-consuming. And exporting everything in excel so it could be imported back is another set of problems and logistical isssues

The problem could be fixed if the schedule has the setting to put multiple subtotals (flags). Then, by combining the properties and flags to show subtotal, we could achieve the graphical design of the numerical values.

Cheers,

Stefan Veselinovic