To ArchiCad or not to ArchiCad, that is the question....

[Anonymous]

OK, here's my problem and I would greatly appreciate your input (as non-biased as possible please). I am an architect setting up an in-house design studio within a remodeler/design-builder. I have used many different 2d CAD programs at a very advanced level over the years for several architecture firms and remodelers and now must recommend a CAD program for the new office. The choice, as I see it, is between ArchiCad and Revit. I have been evaluating both programs on my computer and I see the potential of both programs and really can't decide. While I am a novice (at best) in each program here's what I see good and bad in both programs so far.

Revit:
1. Great intuitive interface with easy to use snaps, ortho, and tentative snaps.
2. Very good library of parts right out of the box and more can be found online.
3. Temporary dimension tool is fantastic.
4. Poor/slow rendering capabilities.
5. Not great tools (not that bad either) for making CD's but seems to be making an effort here.
6. Subscription prices that are absurd. Not only do you have to buy the product once but over and over again.
7. Good: has that behemoth Autodesk backing the product.
8 Bad: has that behemoth Autodesk backing the product.

ArchiCAD:
1. Very sophisticated and powerful selection of tools.
2. Line weight control to the Nth degree, a great plus. I am extremely critical of CAD drawings that read flat, whether they be Presentation dwgs or CD's.
3. Very good rendering and the Sketch rendering function (a Photoshop like rendering tool) can be very useful for quick looks that a remodeling client can relate to.
4. Easy to view and modify library parts.
5. Not enough library parts from Graphisoft and/or vendors..
6. Can't just point and click when drawing. You must enter "shift + R" before every co-ordinate entry. This drives me crazy.
7. No offset command that functions as one would expect (a la AutoCAD). This also drives me crazy.I have no ides how one details without a drop dead simple offset tool. I guess I'd have to learn.
8. No subscription fee (at least not yet).

The list could go on and on for either product. I think if I could combine the ease of Revit and it's snaps and temporary dimensions with ArchiCad's CD detailing tools (and line weight control), library modification tools, and rendering capabilities I'd be set. But alas, I can't.

So my question is what do you think is ArchiCad's's single greatest asset (please don't list CD set co-ordination as they both are very good at this) and what is it's greatest weakness. Be truthful here. I would really appreciate your input. I think I will do well with either product but would be interested to know what it is that the typical user loves/hates.

I'll try listing this in a Revit forum as well....

Thanks,

Dean

[Steve Jepson]

Hitiachi or Senco ?
DeWalt or Milwaukee?
Tosiba or Sony?
Coke or Pepsi?
Plumb or Estwing?
Dell or HP?
Mac or PC?
MJB or Folgers?
Hershys' or Nestle?
CAD or by hand?
Rawlings or Wilson?
Titleist or MaxFli ?
Nike or Adidas?
Office Max or Office Depot?
WinZip or Stuffit?
Budweiser or Coors?
Ruffels or Lays?
ArchiCAD or Revit?

[stefan]

There is no definitive answer...

I chose ArchiCAD while Revit was not available. I have Revit now as well (a student version) but still have more experience in ArchiCAD.

What I lack in ArchiCAD is a more direct 3D interface (3d-snapping, drawing lines in 3D etc...). That works better even in AutoCAD.

Revit is superior on many parts, especially with the coordination of the building model.
I never saw very good Accurender images from Revit.

I'm a programmer, so I don't fear GDL. I know I can "program" any library element I could possibly want and GDL is not that hard, but it is a big step for most ArchiCAD users. There are tons and tons of ArchiCAD objects available (free and commercial). And one library element can become an unlimited amount of variations.

ArchiCAD works OK with DWG, but I guess Revit has an advantage here (I suggest going for the Revit Series, when you would choose Revit, since it also contains AutoCAD).

I like the visual output I get from ArchiCAD:
- hatched hidden line perspectives, including shadows, directly from the
3D-model.
- clean intersections: I don't draw 2D-details before construction documentation: I make sure that the ArchiCAD 3d-model is complete, so that a section is completely generated from the model. That said, small errors can sometimes be solved quickly in 2D that would take to much work in 3D.

I guess Revit would perform similar...

Difficult decision. No complete answer. Either one will be a good solution, though. Avoid ADT 😉

[Ben Odonnell]

Stefan,

stefan wrote:
ArchiCAD works OK with DWG, but I guess Revit has an advantage here (I suggest going for the Revit Series, when you would choose Revit, since it also contains AutoCAD).

Whilst I agree with 99% of the thing you write in this forum, I have to disagree with you on this one.

The DWG converting from ArchiCAD/Plotmaker is not ok it is in fact fantastic. You have so much control over your output to DWG.

Here in Sweden, I'm sure it's the same in other countries, we have very stringent rules about saving out to DWG. It has to be to a certain standard, the standard includes a whole list of layers, line types, fonts etc etc, that one must convert till and follow.

Now I'm no revit expert, but is it so that Revit doesn't use layers?

Please tell me how one dose a layer-->layer conversion from Revit?
I see this as a problem, e.g I have a wall in Revit that is going to be demolished and is has a dashed dot line type, how do I convert this if I'm using "BYLAYER" in AutoCAD?



So for me it's very hard to understand how one does a layer-->layer conversion when you don't have any layers to convert from the start. The way I understand it is that one has to convert each family (Wall,slab etc), individually(Pleas correct me if I'm wrong)

You stated that when you buy Revit, AutoCAD is included, why? Is it because you can't do working drawings/details in Revit?

How do you save out a model and then a paper space drawing from Revit?

From what I have seen of Revit's DWG compatibility, ArchiCAD blows this thing out of the water.

Cheers.
Ben

[stefan]

I'm not Scott, but here it goes:

Ben wrote:
Now I'm no revit expert, but is it so that Revit doesn't use layers?

Revit doesn't use layers, but uses layer-conversion schemes while exporting to DWG.
Objects use colors and other settings "by layer".

Ben wrote:
You stated that when you buy Revit, AutoCAD is included, why? Is it because you can't do working drawings/details in Revit?

AutoCAD is still a major sales advantage to convince people to buy Revit. You can do full construction drawing including details in Revit alone. In fact, I even saw 2D-details adapt to adjustments in the 3D-model, by the connection capabilities of Revit. Pretty impressive.

Ben wrote:
How do you save out a model and then a paper space drawing from Revit?

You do this from a Revit Sheet. Layout is automatically created, including viewports and the full drawings are included in the model space. Exactly what one would expect...
The model space is actually an XReffed drawing, that is saved seperately. But with the Edit-in-place in AutoCAD this works like it should.

I leave other comments to Scott 😉

[Rakela Raul]

very difficult question for people with expertise only in archicad, unless scott is also proficient in archicad by now !!

dean, a lot to do with taste also!!

[Richard Morrison]

Dean:

Glad I'm not making a choice myself, but a few items in your pros/cons list can be addressed. The new Cigraph add-on, ArchiRuler, fixes the offset problem, as well as the "Shift-R" problem.

One of the reasons I keep coming back to AC is that the extent of available libraries of realistic objects is HUGE compared to REVIT. Have you checked Objects Online, for example? I have not seen commercially available libraries for REVIT like the D3 SmartParts, for example. Maybe they exist, just haven't seen them.

[Scott Davis]

stefan wrote:
I leave other comments to Scott 😉

Stefan, I'll leave this one to you guys...you are covering it quite well! No ArchiCAD expertise yet....too involved in Revit and projects!

I will say that Revit does not "automatically" come with AutoCAD, it's a choice. You can buy Revit Building, or buy Revit Building Series....why get AutoCAD with Revit? Because almost EVERYTHING drawn up until just a couple years ago was DWG. Makes it easier for a firm to transistion to Revit.

Wouldn't AC users like a copy of AutoCAD to help translate consultant files, details downloaded off the internet, legacy drawings, etc?

[Rakela Raul]

Wouldn't AC users like a copy of AutoCAD to help translate consultant files, details downloaded off the internet, legacy drawings, etc

i think the response is positive, but negative if you have microstation which speaks either language (dwg+dgn)

[Scott Davis]

yeah, revit speaks DGN, too, but I don't need a copy of microstation!