To ArchiCad or not to ArchiCad, that is the question....

[Anonymous]

OK, here's my problem and I would greatly appreciate your input (as non-biased as possible please). I am an architect setting up an in-house design studio within a remodeler/design-builder. I have used many different 2d CAD programs at a very advanced level over the years for several architecture firms and remodelers and now must recommend a CAD program for the new office. The choice, as I see it, is between ArchiCad and Revit. I have been evaluating both programs on my computer and I see the potential of both programs and really can't decide. While I am a novice (at best) in each program here's what I see good and bad in both programs so far.

Revit:
1. Great intuitive interface with easy to use snaps, ortho, and tentative snaps.
2. Very good library of parts right out of the box and more can be found online.
3. Temporary dimension tool is fantastic.
4. Poor/slow rendering capabilities.
5. Not great tools (not that bad either) for making CD's but seems to be making an effort here.
6. Subscription prices that are absurd. Not only do you have to buy the product once but over and over again.
7. Good: has that behemoth Autodesk backing the product.
8 Bad: has that behemoth Autodesk backing the product.

ArchiCAD:
1. Very sophisticated and powerful selection of tools.
2. Line weight control to the Nth degree, a great plus. I am extremely critical of CAD drawings that read flat, whether they be Presentation dwgs or CD's.
3. Very good rendering and the Sketch rendering function (a Photoshop like rendering tool) can be very useful for quick looks that a remodeling client can relate to.
4. Easy to view and modify library parts.
5. Not enough library parts from Graphisoft and/or vendors..
6. Can't just point and click when drawing. You must enter "shift + R" before every co-ordinate entry. This drives me crazy.
7. No offset command that functions as one would expect (a la AutoCAD). This also drives me crazy.I have no ides how one details without a drop dead simple offset tool. I guess I'd have to learn.
8. No subscription fee (at least not yet).

The list could go on and on for either product. I think if I could combine the ease of Revit and it's snaps and temporary dimensions with ArchiCad's CD detailing tools (and line weight control), library modification tools, and rendering capabilities I'd be set. But alas, I can't.

So my question is what do you think is ArchiCad's's single greatest asset (please don't list CD set co-ordination as they both are very good at this) and what is it's greatest weakness. Be truthful here. I would really appreciate your input. I think I will do well with either product but would be interested to know what it is that the typical user loves/hates.

I'll try listing this in a Revit forum as well....

Thanks,

Dean

[Aaron Bourgoin]

Actually, Graphisoft approached Revit Technology Corporation (RTC - Revit before Autodesk bought them) and tried to get RTC to purchase Graphisoft. The deal didn't work out. Soon after, Autodesk started negotiations with RTC and evenetually bought it.

would you please point to a specific source for this information. I'd love to see it.

[Ben Cohen]

Scott wrote:
It's built on older technology, and for 20 years of history, should be developed far beyond it's current limitations.

This must mean that WORD,EXCEL,PHOTOSHOP,WINDOWS,MAC OS etc all have their days numbered. Maybe I should run out and buy OpenOffice and RedHat before the price goes up!

[Anonymous]

Scott wrote:
Actually, Graphisoft approached Revit Technology Corporation (RTC - Revit before Autodesk bought them) and tried to get RTC to purchase Graphisoft. The deal didn't work out. Soon after, Autodesk started negotiations with RTC and evenetually bought it.

My understanding - Autodesk never pursued Graphisoft.

You say this very matter of factly... You are sure? If so you are much higher up at Autodesk than I thought

[Scott Davis]

Can't name the source, other than to say it was someone from the inside who would have no reason to fabricate a story. Is was a conversation, and not in writing. Also, I'm not with Autodesk at all. My only affiliation is with AUGI, which is a completly separate volunteer organization. AUGI is sponsored by Autodesk, but that's as far as the relationship goes.

[stefan]

And if you want to add an AutoCAD seat to ArchiCAD, consider the following freeware application: http://www.progecad.com/

It's an AutoCAD clone, based on IntelliCAD. The freeware version lacks licensed modules, like Lightworks rendering, VBA and ACIS solids, but a good product to use when exchanging files with AutoCAD users.

PC-only, sorry Adalbert 😉

[Djordje]

Scott wrote:
SOM New York is designing the entire World Trade Center Freedom Tower in Revit, including Structural and MEP. Is that large enough at 1776 feet tall?

This is what Autodesk would like you to believe. I cannot say more, as they are very quick on the libels ... speak to some people who worked on the project after hours.

[Scott Davis]

Djordje wrote:
... speak to some people who worked on the project after hours.

I speak to the team on a regular basis.

[Anonymous]

Scott wrote:

Djordje wrote:
... speak to some people who worked on the project after hours.

I speak to the team on a regular basis.

I speak to them too, heck, I have even been to SOM's offices on the 23rd floor to see the revit model(s) in person.

[Anonymous]

2 YEARS OF WTC PLANS LIE IN RUINS AS PATAKI ORDERS A NEW TOWER

read at
http://www.bdcmag.com/news.asp?&topicId=100007467&docId=l:279267301

I will call Mr PATAKI and suggest turning to his roots and using AC the Hungarian answer to hi pains.

[Rob]

I have been reading the very same thread at AUGI forum (Revit's forum) for some time and I came across with this:

Originally Posted by Scott Davis

So why is GDL necessary at all in ArchiCAD if it's so easy to create anything without it.

Answer:

This may be getting off the OP's topic, but I think it is worth responding to. GDL is optional. The reason that GDL can be helpful is that there many things that can be done with GDL programming that could be done no other way.

Example: I do a lot of interiors in my residential practice. I have a curtain object scripted in GDL by a VERY talented Russian programmer. By changing parameters, the curtain will take on amazing new 3D properties. I can use parameters to do very simple things, like change the type of finials on the curtain rod, both in 3D and 2D. I can display the curtain (in an actual 3D object) with tiebacks or a user-selectable number of swags and layers of curtain and trim types. I can adjust the "fullness" of the materal (density of the cloth folds) and the angle of the drape, and how close to the floor it hangs. And with all changes in these parameters the curtain is being regenerated on-the-fly to look like real cloth draped folds, in actual 3D. Further, this single curtain object, which is capable of so much variety, will display with the appropriate amount of detail based on camera distance; if far away, it will be rather simple so it doesn't use up a lot of computer resources to render.

Now this kind of object is NOT something that an average user is going to create. But consider that it might be useful for a furniture manufacturer to be able to distribute their entire chair line as a single object. Change a single parameter and get a whole new chair, or customize with various options; back types, cushions, legs, etc. Very efficient to distribute to customers.

Without GDL, you can easily create "one off" objects, change sizes, materials, 2D display characteristics, and add "properties" like cost info and estimating information. But WITH GDL you can take objects to a whole new level of customization and intelligence.

Richard


and then reply:

If this Revit / Archicad comparision discussion goes much further we will split that content into a new thread because, yes, it is getting OT.

It just makes me wonder if it is going so much out of the topic. Richard has explained the BACKBONE of AC on a quite good example (my opinion) therefore capabilities of AC engine that gives you relative but so far huge freedom in comparison to let's say REVIT or ADT etc no matter on any fancy-pancy interface or obscure features/featurettes (seeing Revit's marketing images with a spiral curtain wall - what on earth would you use that for?) ...
...so try to explain the capabilities of AC and you are out of the topic... but of course...