Phased permit sets

[Anonymous]

Is there a Graphisoft recommendation for how to manage a phased model? The first phase is "foundation only" and the second phase is "shell". The revision drawings for the first phase will be occurring while the second phase design development drawings are being worked on. What is the best way to coordinate all information and exit the process with a "complete" model?

[Anonymous]

I think I found a post called "Pacakges while keeping into in1model" (sic) that covers my question. It's from 2008, but I don't think there are enough changes to ArchiCAD that there's more information... Does anyone know otherwise?

[Anonymous]

I'd have to know more details to make a definite recommendation, but one way that comes to mind is to do phase 1 in one file, link that into the phase 2 file and so on.

[Erika Epstein]

Ted, if its what I think, Graphisoft put that out a couple years ago and I don't believe it is still supported. It was pc only, and intended for smaller projects.
Matthew's approach is a good one to follow.

[Anonymous]

(Erika) I think I recall what you were referring to and not only was it PC only, but I thought I heard it was geared toward residential projects and/or schematic design...
(Matthew) I'll post what you wrote in May '08 because I think it's very helpful. Tomorrow, our office is having a debrief on the pros and cons of our most recent phased project model files, so I'll post better details of landscape of our spaghetti (if we're lucky, it's a single type of pasta)...

[gpowless]

Phased modeling?

I would have a problem with phasing the models of any design since design is basically top down, where construction is bottom up. Unless the entire model design is complete there are too many liabilities that could slip through the cracks.

I do understand the need for phased construction and that details can be developed as construction moves along, but seriously, building a building before the construction documents are substantially complete is a dangerous game.

[Anonymous]

(gpowless) I sympathize with your perspective, but if an owner asks you to, do you turn the job down?

[gpowless]

Ted wrote:
(gpowless) I sympathize with your perspective, but if an owner asks you to, do you turn the job down?

Yes.

There are principles of design and construction that do not get compromised. One of them is that you cannot determine the loads on the foundation if the upper storey design is not finished. Another is conformity with all building codes and regulations (would you provide a design not in conformance with the (a) Building Code?). Lastly, I do not risk my licence for anyone. There isn't enough money to cover the loss of reputation or the damages they WILL seek against you if there is a building failure.

One last thing. For every Joe that wants to short cut you short and force you into questionable practices there are 10 who are content to comply with the code and respect timelines. I suggest that if you maintain your principles you have far more to gain than by compromising them once and those who respect our profession will still give us the work.

[Anonymous]

(gpowless) So (with ArchiCAD) would you then draw two separate tenant infills, occurring simultaneously in the same building, in two separate models? And therefore never have one model that shows everything within the building? Or would you charge one client for drawing the information twice?

[jclewis]

We 'phase' our projects more often than not, but you do need a handle on the whole building to do so. Most of the time advantage come from the permitting process: it takes us 8-10 weeks to get a full permit, but only two weeks to get a foundation permit. And TIs can be added later.

Our process is: model as much of the project as needed in order to engineer the foundations and provide whatever else the permitting authority may require (in our case, structural floors plans and elevations as well as foundation details). When this task is completed and printed, save that model under a new name (PROJ-FNDN) and archive it.

Then return to the original model and finish the full permit plan set.

For TIs, reference the full permit model into a new model and complete the TI. There are various approaches to multiple TIs. We generally keep them separate, which means that we never have a single model of the entire project, but we seldom need one. If you want the entire project in one file, I would reference each TI into a shell model (do not include nested modules and be careful of 2d annotation, which will add confusion).