Advice on teaching REVIT users ArchiCAD

[JaredBanks]

Anyone have any advice on teaching REVIT users ArchiCAD? I've found that the sooner a new user starts focusing on using ArchiCAD as ArchiCAD and not trying to use it like a former drafting program, the better. This is much easier done when the previous program the user knew was AutoCAD. I find there's more resistance with REVIT. "Well in REVIT if I did this it'd work. Why can't this program function exactly like that?" I'm hoping that I can point out some things that happen in the early stages of modeling to help highlight the joys of working in ArchiCAD v11. So far some of the things I've mentioned haven't left this user that impressed...

Thoughts? Teaching techniques you've used?

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Hence if you have had no Archicad training its not surprising you are finding it difficult.

There are Graphisoft resources available to train yourself though: http://www.graphisoft.com/products/archicad/training_guides/

Also third party books: http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/documentation/Supplementary/english.html

[Anonymous]

It does seem to be difficult to switch from Revit to ArchiCAD. I have yet to see anyone do it successfully. I think the problem is that Revit's strengths are evident early in the learning process whereas ArchiCAD's advantages show up on more advanced levels.

My own experience has been that Revit was very easy to get started with but as I pushed it further and harder it became progressively more difficult and frustrating. The clunky interface makes it tedious to do common tasks requiring multiple clicks and scrolls (like turning the section box on and off in the 3D view). Selecting and editing elements seems much harder (no info box, pet palette, find & select, and so on.) I also find that Revit's performance on large models lags well behind ArchiCAD, especially with the multi-processor support in 12.

When ArchiCAD was as simple as Revit (about 10 years ago) it was reasonable (though still not advisable) to learn it on the job. It is no longer reasonable. It is very unfortunate, and unwise, that your firm is not providing you with proper training.

[JaredBanks]

Hence,

I think before you jump ship or try to tell the firm they're using the wrong software, you need to press the training issue.

Hence wrote:
I feel that ArchiCAD is inferior to Revit.

That's not objective. Most people on this site will agree that the two programs are both good, just different.

You're just experienced at one software and not at the other. And trained at one and not trained on the other. From an economics standpoint which will be cheaper for the company and better for the long term? To scrap a software and buy two seats of REVIT or train it's two employees on the existing software? I think that's a more appropriate angle. Also if the other guy has only been there 1 year, does that suggest the turnover is really high?

[Aaron Bourgoin]

Matthew wrote:
It does seem to be difficult to switch from Revit to ArchiCAD. I have yet to see anyone do it successfully. I think the problem is that Revit's strengths are evident early in the learning process whereas ArchiCAD's advantages show up on more advanced levels.

My own experience has been that Revit was very easy to get started with but as I pushed it further and harder it became progressively more difficult and frustrating. The clunky interface makes it tedious to do common tasks requiring multiple clicks and scrolls (like turning the section box on and off in the 3D view). Selecting and editing elements seems much harder (no info box, pet palette, find & select, and so on.) I also find that Revit's performance on large models lags well behind ArchiCAD, especially with the multi-processor support in 12.

When ArchiCAD was as simple as Revit (about 10 years ago) it was reasonable (though still not advisable) to learn it on the job. It is no longer reasonable. It is very unfortunate, and unwise, that your firm is not providing you with proper training.

See. Matthew has actually said something that someone else might actually be able compare - objectively. Or is that important to anybody?

[David Shorter]

Actually its difficult to change from any program to any other program. The most important thing is proper training using a competent teacher.
There absolutely NO substitute for this.
Obviously I'm biased but if you are not getting on with ArchiCAD then you haven't been trained properly.
Oh and you have to want to understand the concepts in the new software. If you don't want to do it you will fail every time.
Simple as that.

[TomWaltz]

JaredBanks wrote:

Dwight wrote:
Recite this:

"Quit whining and learn Archicad or find another job in these recessive times, even if Obama will fix things before Easter."

Dwight! Always a fountain of wisdom. Thanks for reminding me not to doubt my instincts. I never had trouble getting that message across with former Autocad users. I don't know much REVIT, so my internal monologue doesn't as readily see the flaws in the whining. Not that that is a good excuse.

Any other thoughts non-hostile?

I think one of the big challenges Archicad trainers face in this aspect is that they don't know the product being compared.

A good number of us knew Autocad and it's uses well enough to talk someone through doing a similar task or getting the same end result in Archicad.

It's a lot harder to do that if you don't know the other program and it's terminology or functions. It's even worse when it's a legitimate competing product that actually does has some up-sides over Archicad ("Archicad vs Autocad" and "Archicad vs Revit" are two VERY different arguments).

The best thing I'd recommend is a military strategy: learn about your enemy. Pick up a Revit book, download the demo, and play with it a little. Get to know a little bit about what your new users want to be able to do. Then you will be better equipped to help them adjust.

[David Shorter]

Not really sure about this...
OK there is terminology used differently by different systems and its sometimes handy to know these in order to communicate properly but the most difficult thing faced by the students is changing their mind set.
The only way to change the mind set of a student is NOT to refer back to other software but to focus on the requirements and methods of the software being taught.

[JaredBanks]

I do have a REVIT demo on my home machine. That's a great idea. I'll have to mess around with that again and try to do some things. And start trolling on their forums again. A year ago I remember getting some good sites to check out. Reminds me of a great Rage Against The Machine song, "Know Your Enemy" Or in this case know your future friend...

[Erika Epstein]

TomWaltz wrote:

I think one of the big challenges Archicad trainers face in this aspect is that they don't know the product being compared.

A good number of us knew Autocad and it's uses well enough to talk someone through doing a similar task or getting the same end result in Archicad.

It's a lot harder to do that if you don't know the other program and it's terminology or functions. It's even worse when it's a legitimate competing product that actually does has some up-sides over Archicad ("Archicad vs Autocad" and "Archicad vs Revit" are two VERY different arguments).

The best thing I'd recommend is a military strategy: learn about your enemy. Pick up a Revit book, download the demo, and play with it a little. Get to know a little bit about what your new users want to be able to do. Then you will be better equipped to help them adjust.

Some time ago Graphisoft came out with a book 'Archicad for Autocad Users'. Very helpful for those of us who have never used Autocad. Perhaps it's time for a new manual 'Archicad for Revit Users'?

[Aaron Bourgoin]

I don't know if it covers Revit (don't think so), but GS have just published a new version of the book you mention:

he ArchiCAD for AutoCAD Users book was first published in 2002 (based on ArchiCAD 7.0). It had great success during the years in supporting our efforts to migrate architectural practices from 2D workflows to Virtual Building based design and documentation. Although the principles have not changed much still by now both software changed a lot so a major update of the book has been pressing for quite some time.

Now the new, updated book is available and is based on ArchiCAD 12. Next to the update of the existing material new chapters were also added to the existing content. The new content among others provides detailed description about the Virtual Building architectural design and documentation workflow. Please find below the table of contents of the book:

Table of Contents

· Chapter 1: AutoCAD User Meet ArchiCAD
· Chapter 2: Workflow
· Chapter 3: ArchiCAD Methods
· Chapter 4: Editing with ArchiCAD
· Chapter 5: ArchiCAD Tutorials
· Chapter 6: Transferring Drawings
· Chapter 7: Productivity Techniques
· Appendix A: Command Cross-Reference
· Appendix B: ArchiCAD-AutoCAD Glossary
· Appendix C: Teamwork Roles & Permissions

The book is available for ordering
We are also working on making it available from online book stores such as Amazon.com with the following ISBN codes:
Metric, International English version - ISBN 978-963-06-6538-4
Feet and Inches, US English version - ISBN 978-963-06-6539-1