Graphisofts default pen numbers in library objects

[Anonymous]

I posed this in a different thread yesterday, but it might as well stand on its own:

With respect to setting up pen weights and colors:

When placing Graphisoft's library objects in my drawings, I frequently find myself resetting several pen weights, often requiring a trip deep to the bottom of some heavily-parametered objects. Too often, I do this over and over, say, when placing a variety of different cabinetry objects.

Is there a logic to Graphisoft's choice of pens in the default settings of library objects?

After...I don't know 8 years of using this program, I would think I would have caught on to such a thing, but you never know. It would be a lovely thing to have most (all!!!) library parts look great "out-of-the-box," assuming this didn't mean trying to adapt to an incoherent pen weight system (or non-system.

[Anonymous]

With respect to setting up pen weights and colors:

When placing Graphisoft's library objects in my drawings, I frequently find myself resetting several pen weights, often requiring a trip deep to the bottom of some heavily-parametered objects. Too often, I do this over and over, say, when placing a variety of different cabinetry objects.

Is there a logic to Graphisoft's choice of pens in the default settings of library objects?

Robert,

I've been using it nearly as long, and just now I have learned there is a some logic, but it need enhancement.
There is even some documentation on it somewher either in the Archihelp or in this forum, though I can't locate the document right now.(typical!)

Basically they are divided by division.
Pens 1-10 are the only ones preset to archicad objects, settings.

Pen 1 is typ for walls and heavy 1.42
Pen 2 is for things other built element, and things that go in walls. and lighter.
Pen 3 is fills, and the glass pen, I think.
Pen 4 Entourage sitework.
Pen 5 I don't know, didn't see it assigned.
Pen 6 is door swings
Pen 7 and 8 are furniture & Equipement, among other things.
Pen 9 is pink.
Pen 10 (here is the mistake) is often electrical, dimensions, some equipment and other random bits.

The logic is to accept that lib objects come in with these pens, and set these pens to what you want the OBJECT to be when it prints in plotmaker.

The key to controling the way your drawings look, as Link in this forum has advocated is to set the pens in plotmaker. For example, the electrical plan reads best when your electrical symbols and switching lines are really strong, and everything else(walls, furniture,millwork, windows) are greyed out/hairlined. This can easily be done in plotmaker if you set your electrical pens to a separate row in the pen chart, such as pens 32 through 40. (this is my gripe with Archicads setting their electrical objects, junky as they are, to pen 10, a pen shared by non-elect. items)

Why take the time to write such a lengthy reply? It helps clarify it for me.
Also check out MaxATS Template guide. He has some good explanation of handling pens in plotmaker, though I don't like his penset for archicad.


In response to Ben, Karl, and Matthew,
While architects may be a finicky bunch and want their own drawings to be individualistic, they really all want the same thing: A Cad product(archicad) to work(looks good) out of the box without having to customize pens and object settings. A user interface that globally changes library part pen settings sounds nifty, but distracts GS from the main issue.
I think it would be more helpful if Archicad gave clearer documentation about their pen colors and logic, they really do have one, convoluted it may be.

I didn't know i was such a soapboxer...

Nathan Brauer

[Anonymous]

I have long been a strong advocate of assigning pens by function but I don't think that it is possible to rely on any defaults and therefore don't recommend it (except for pen 91 which, of course, MUST be white).

What I do recommend are pen settings which accommodate some of the more common defaults while not overly compromising usability or company preferences.

I agree absolutely that the program should work easily and efficiently out of the box without requiring a new user to set up a bunch of things they don't yet fully understand. It also needs to maintain (or improve) the ability of advanced users to fine tune the settings for specific purposes.

The problem is that both pens and layers come from an organizational model based on plotting 2D CAD drawings on pen plotters which has been pushed, pulled, added to, and shoehorned to fit the needs of the Virtual Building model. I think both pens and layers are antiquated and need to be replaced with a new system of organizing and representing the building model or we will be severely constrained from moving forward in both the ease of use and the depth and complexity of advanced uses.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Nathan wrote:
Pens 1-10 are the only ones preset to archicad objects, settings.

Good comments, Nathan.

The MSA library pens, discussed in another thread this past week, are part of what I was talking about here. They use pens 1-10 and quite a few more (hard coded inside the GDL) - and look terrible with true weight on. They don't follow any system such as the one you listed.

Karl

[aahatimo]

Matthew wrote:
I think both pens and layers are antiquated and need to be replaced with a new system of organizing and representing the building model or we will be severely constrained from moving forward in both the ease of use and the depth and complexity of advanced uses.

here, here! soon soon?

[Vitruvius]

I like Archibens suggestion of having pens preassigned - I especially like the idea of a PEN (RGB) (Weight) function in GDL.

That way you never need to open the object to fiddle pen colours & weights. And even better, you could make the pen weights scaleable just as the symbol is - line weight at 1:100 is PEN AAAA and at 1:50 is PEN BBB.

[__archiben]

whilst we're talking pens, weights and functions, this is something i'd like to revive to go along with it . . . :

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=941&start=10

~/archiben

[TomWaltz]

I've been trying to attempt this, but the LP_XMLConverter -l2x only seems to copy a directory recursively without actually converting the GSM files to XML format.

[TomWaltz]

Interesting that it seems to work with 8 Libraries and 8.1 Libraries, but not with Archicad 9 libraries.