Modifying Stair ?

[Anonymous]

Hi,
I'm building a ss
tair and having a little problem in modifying it on plan view.
In my attached filed, I have a little corner of a landing that I want it to be cut off. But I don't know how.
Please help.
Many thanks

[JaredBanks]

So you make stretchable library parts? Does that take much scripting? I'm curious what exactly you have/do/use.

Steve wrote:
Complex profiles are great. I use them a lot. However, it is harder to re-use them from project to project than parts that you can just stretch to match the new width of the stair.

The idea of using parts is that you can use them for modeling the entire stair if you need that, or for just one step that you multiply/distribute with elevation offset to construct a detail or section.

[Barry Kelly]

Steve wrote:
I make paper templates of the stringers. They role it out on the 2x or LVL and make a nail hole at the points of the notch. They have it cut and installed faster than they can even lay it out using the other way.

Sometimes I make paper templates for the sink and bathtub holes as well as for archways. Sometimes there just isn't a good place to draw it out with a string on site.

I also make paper templates for the foundation anchor bolts. They tack it to the plywood and drill the holes right through it. It has a centerline mark and a 3d drawing (Simpson detail ) of how that anchor is to be used.

I have used paper templates for many other things I do not trust Bubba to mark out with his fat keel.

Cool
A full 1:1 set of plans for the builder to roll out on site and set up his materials on.
A bit like paint by numbers.

Seriously though, 1:1 templates for difficult setouts, cutting guides or fixing points is an excellent addition to just supplying a set of smaller scaled plans.

Barry.

[Steve Jepson]

JaredBanks wrote:
So you make stretchable library parts? Does that take much scripting? I'm curious what exactly you have/do/use.

Steve wrote:
Complex profiles are great. I use them a lot. However, it is harder to re-use them from project to project than parts that you can just stretch to match the new width of the stair.

The idea of using parts is that you can use them for modeling the entire stair if you need that, or for just one step that you multiply/distribute with elevation offset to construct a detail or section.

It's nothing special at all. The stair parts don't need to be anything more than just an ordinary slab.

You start with the manufactures profile. Select the slab tool set it to 48" or what ever the width of the stair is. Click the profile with the magic wand. View in 3d. Save as library part. Thats it.
You can stretch the parts or edit the length or width you want.

But parts is not the only way to model a stair. It's just something you can do if you need it for some reason. Like for a materials list.

You could draw the stringer and model the whole stair at once using a composite wall. Same process. View in 3d, save as library part.

[Anonymous]

Steve wrote:

GeNOS wrote:

Steve wrote:
Sooner or later you will need to make a section and some details for that stair. Then you will realize that it would have been faster just to model the stair in the first place. I don't think any of those stair tools are very useful.

Model the stair exactly as it will be constructed, keeping in mind what things you need to show up in your sections and details.

why go to that much detail on a stair anyways?? the guy building the stairs should know how to do it with out you telling him all that info.. if he doesn't then i wouldn't be employing him to build it in the 1st place.

Lets apply the same reasoning to your details.

If you don't know what information is necessary to have in a detail in order to cut the stringers then you shouldn't be making plans in the 1st place.

You can't cut the stringer correctly unless you know what materials are going on it, and what the materials are at the landings.

What information in that detail above does the carpenter not need to know ? This is not a "drafted" detail where every line is individually drawn. This is what a live section of the model parts looks like.

Also, keep in mind that the carpenter is only one of several people who need the information in a detail. I will spare you the list, and a lesson on how information from the details is extracted to the schedules,list, specifications, etc...

The point I am trying to make with the detail is that I can model a useful detail faster than I can make a stair using any of the Stair Tools I have used. And my details are useful to me, the details generated with the Stair Tools are not useful to me.

If the stair detail is so unimportant that you can get buy with what the Stair Tools can do, why make a detail at all?

Why not just make a little note on the site plan that says " build house here". This is exactly what many of the builders who come to me for plans want. A bare bones, down and dirty permit set that will not keep them from building it any which way they want.
The "permit set" is kept nice and clean in the tube at the job site and will never see the light of day.

Good plans however, are for protecting the Client from builders like that.

Good details are also for showing the builder the reason why he is not at liberty to deviate from the plan.

A good set of plans and details is what keeps the tail from wagging the dog.

I make paper templates of the stringers. They role it out on the 2x or LVL and make a nail hole at the points of the notch. They have it cut and installed faster than they can even lay it out using the other way.

Sometimes I make paper templates for the sink and bathtub holes as well as for archways. Sometimes there just isn't a good place to draw it out with a string on site.

I also make paper templates for the foundation anchor bolts. They tack it to the plywood and drill the holes right through it. It has a centerline mark and a 3d drawing (Simpson detail ) of how that anchor is to be used.

I have used paper templates for many other things I do not trust Bubba to mark out with his fat keel.

might be different there as to here, but i just need to show in plan what the stairs look like.. maybe some elevations or 3d views of it and happy days... stair contractor does the rest.. its there profession, no need to tell them how to do there job... not having a dig at the fact that you do model that mach detail.. just asking the question..
only time i would detail it if it was something way out of the normal.

[Anonymous]

When creating your stair with profiles:

What about traditional drafted plan views (with hidden lines for nosings, etc)? Do you just slug it out and draw polylines etc, or do you create library parts that have the 2D symbol properly edited for use in plan?

Mark

[JaredBanks]

I do all my stair plan info in 2D. It's fast and easy. And with the profiled stair doing all the rest of the work, it's easy to change both.

[Steve Jepson]

snapcrackle wrote:
When creating your stair with profiles:

What about traditional drafted plan views (with hidden lines for nosings, etc)? Do you just slug it out and draw polylines etc, or do you create library parts that have the 2D symbol properly edited for use in plan?

Mark

The stair parts ( tread, riser, nosing) all ready have the correct lines and fills. A little trick here is to make sure you tweak the wood grain fills you use for each part so that they do not match. In a section view they will appear to have merged into one part if the fill is exactly the same.

To make the star, you only need a few parts. Groop one set ( tread, riser, and nosing if you use it) multiply with virtical offset. Bob's yr uncle.

You have an accurate model for rendeing, you have the parts you need for generating the material list, and your sections and details are ready for dimensions.

I do not use the model to show my stair in plan view. I Just use lines. The stair model layers are turned off.

As always, how you model something depends on what you are modeling it for. If you model for a materials list, you would do it different than if you were modeling for a quick 3d view in ArchiCAD. Modeling is different depending on what rendering software you use too. If you are modeling for the sake of generating dimensioned working drawings but don't need a materials list or model for rendering you might to it in another way.

Lot's of ways to do anything.

[Rick Thompson]

I don't detail stairs to the level talked about, and find Stairmaker, as bad as it is, generally gets the job done. However, if you do want to build them piece by piece, SmartParts has a pretty good object list available. I don't really use it, as above, but it would be easier than making everything.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I'm being naive, (would not be the first time) but seems to me that
G.S. having made the curtain wall tool as complicated as it is, they could retool basic concept to make a truly useful stair tool that has the structural aspects available to users with the parts as Steve mentions in his methodology.
Or taking Smart parts concept all the way to the finish line?

[bgoodale]

i find the stairs to be a major limiting factor in ArchiCAD and extremely frustrating.

yes, you can model them with parts and detail with 2d, but it takes too much time.

Stairbuilder and Archistair almost get it right, but the stuff they get wrong really sucks.

But other major CAD and BIM programs aren't much better. Revit's stair tools are useles for any residential stair work, Chief Architect is OK for some things but has limitations, and Vectorwroks is completely useless.

I guess it is just the highly complex nature of stairs that makes impossible to design a good 3d tool that does everything you need. oh well...