Modeling
About Archicad's design tools, element connections, modeling concepts, etc.

!Restored: Musing on ArchiCad

KeesW
Advocate
Reading the stuff on Vectorworks on this forum is quite depressing. It does maybe 90% of ArchiCad for 30% of its cost. It will soon do 110% of AC and will (probably) still be much cheaper. We have in GS a company that is too complacent to attend major architectural and building conferences. ArchiCad still has crappy stairs, dodgy library objects and defaults that make me wonder if architects are still involved with its development. Users scream out for improvements in fundamental operations and instead get the ability to create multicoloured backgrounds and now, curtain walls.

I like ArchiCad and would like to be proud of it. But what, if anything, is it really good at? Is there anything at which it is best? All we get is compromises, clever ideas that nearly work but others that are never fixed. We have to pay extra for addons to do what our CAD system should enable to do out of the box.

Come on, Graphisoft, pull your finger out and really give us a first class product. Properly finance the fixing of long standing gripes before introducing yet another new feature that most users don't need. Listen to us, your users. Don't we have a say and don't we pay your wages?
Cornelis (Kees) Wegman

cornelis wegman architects
AC 5 - 26 Dell XPS 8940 Win 10 16GB 1TB SSD 2TB HD RTX 3070 GPU
Laptop: AC 24 - 26 Win 10 16GB 1TB SSD RTX 3070 GPU
18 REPLIES 18
KeesW wrote:
Reading the stuff on Vectorworks on this forum is quite depressing. It does maybe 90% of ArchiCad for 30% of its cost. It will soon do 110% of AC and will (probably) still be much cheaper. We have in GS a company that is too complacent to attend major architectural and building conferences. ArchiCad still has crappy stairs, dodgy library objects and defaults that make me wonder if architects are still involved with its development. Users scream out for improvements in fundamental operations and instead get the ability to create multicoloured backgrounds and now, curtain walls.

I like ArchiCad and would like to be proud of it. But what, if anything, is it really good at? Is there anything at which it is best? All we get is compromises, clever ideas that nearly work but others that are never fixed. We have to pay extra for addons to do what our CAD system should enable to do out of the box.

Come on, Graphisoft, pull your finger out and really give us a first class product. Properly finance the fixing of long standing gripes before introducing yet another new feature that most users don't need. Listen to us, your users. Don't we have a say and don't we pay your wages?
Amen.
MacBook Pro Apple M2 Max, 96 GB of RAM
AC27 US (5003) on Mac OS Ventura 13.6.2
Started on AC4.0 in 91/92/93; full-time user since AC8.1 in 2004
Thomas Holm
Booster
KeesW wrote:
Come on, Graphisoft, pull your finger out and really give us a first class product. Properly finance the fixing of long standing gripes before introducing yet another new feature that most users don't need. Listen to us, your users. Don't we have a say and don't we pay your wages?
KeesW, I guess you should direct your request to Vectorworks' and Archicad's common owner, Nemetschek AG. Graphisoft will do what they tell them to - or not to!
AC4.1-AC26SWE; MacOS13.5.1; MP5,1+MBP16,1
KeesW
Advocate
You are right Thomas. Except that this is a Graphisoft/ArchiCad forum, and companies tend to pay more attention to shareholders than customers. Graphisoft is, or used to be, a bit closer to its customers.
Cornelis (Kees) Wegman

cornelis wegman architects
AC 5 - 26 Dell XPS 8940 Win 10 16GB 1TB SSD 2TB HD RTX 3070 GPU
Laptop: AC 24 - 26 Win 10 16GB 1TB SSD RTX 3070 GPU
KeesW wrote:
Reading the stuff on Vectorworks on this forum is quite depressing. It does maybe 90% of ArchiCad for 30% of its cost. It will soon do 110% of AC and will (probably) still be much cheaper. We have in GS a company that is too complacent to attend major architectural and building conferences. ArchiCad still has crappy stairs, dodgy library objects and defaults that make me wonder if architects are still involved with its development. Users scream out for improvements in fundamental operations and instead get the ability to create multicoloured backgrounds and now, curtain walls.

I like ArchiCad and would like to be proud of it. But what, if anything, is it really good at? Is there anything at which it is best? All we get is compromises, clever ideas that nearly work but others that are never fixed. We have to pay extra for addons to do what our CAD system should enable to do out of the box.

Come on, Graphisoft, pull your finger out and really give us a first class product. Properly finance the fixing of long standing gripes before introducing yet another new feature that most users don't need. Listen to us, your users. Don't we have a say and don't we pay your wages?
Preach, brother! Preach!!!
Thomas wrote:
KeesW wrote:
Come on, Graphisoft, pull your finger out and really give us a first class product. Properly finance the fixing of long standing gripes before introducing yet another new feature that most users don't need. Listen to us, your users. Don't we have a say and don't we pay your wages?
KeesW, I guess you should direct your request to Vectorworks' and Archicad's common owner, Nemetschek AG. Graphisoft will do what they tell them to - or not to!
.....unfortunately, I don't believe ArchiCAD is that high on the list of development priorities and R & D resource disbursement, over at Nemetscheck HQ. If you compare the proposed revisions, updates and new features that they previewed for Vectorworks 2009 ( as well as the upgrades to VW20008), along with changes and improvements to other Nemetschek products (Allplan, Cinema 4D etc), you begin to wonder whether or not these products and subsidiary firms all fall under the same umbrella with ArchiCAD.

Either Graphisoft, and GS developers don't get nearly enough funds and resources from Nemetschek, or funds commensurate and comparable with their sister products, and relative to their comparable customer bases (ArchiCAD still has the larger customer base of them all), or the alternative - which is even worse to contemplate - is that ArchiCAD developers and project leads lack the requisite drive and necessary vision that their peers and co-developers at Nemetschek, as well as, over at their competitor rival product houses have, to keep this product competitive, useful andeven just relevant in 21st Century Design and Construction.

I much prefer to believe that the reason we still don't have a robust, versatile and proper functioning stair tool, or the reason we still have a painfully limited object library and library parts and doors and windows that are difficult to adapt to existing product lines, - nearly 3 versions after GS was bought out by Nemetscheck is because GS developers have been having a hard time getting the necessary resources and funds and prioritization from Nemtshcek HQ.

I much prefer to believe that; rather than to find out that the funds and resources have been available to them all along and that it was simply been a case of bad bad baaad strategy, planning, vision and implementation on the part of GS brass and developers. That they have instead felt it much wiser to spend more resources developing new features and tools that only a limited niche of their customer base use on a day-to-day basis (I''m looking right at you Curtain Wall tool) and which were never highly requested to begin with, at the expense of more urgent and long awaited fixes, upgrades and tools that EVERYONE uses and which EVERYONE would benefit from (Stair Tool stand up please; you too, Custom-Object-Creation Tool, complete with intuitive graphical/visual (read non-GDL programming or coding) interface. Oh wait, that one still doesn't exist yet.)

If you really want to gauge the ambition, enthusiasm and drive of any particular firm with regards to the future development of their products, just listen tohow they speak about their long-term plans and upcoming features. Compare the post linking the Vectoworks presentation previewing their product line up to 2011 when they expect to make it a fully BIM product, along with their general roadmap, to the yearly silent treatment we get from Graphisoft, over here - especially prior to new releases (and even after the actual releases).

That silence speaks volumes about where this product is headed.

........sorry for the long rant; some things just have to be said.
Anonymous
Not applicable
How about dump the curtain wall tool and gives us a stair tool that we can claim is a "Stairway to Heaven"
And we could all sing...and G.S. is buyinggggg a stairway toooo heavennnn.
Go ahead G.S. make my day.
Make me proud to be a lifer,(maybe).
Only 3 partial yrs into AC and....
I did order the "R____" Demo DVD as a long term back up plan.
Don't make me use it.
I believe AC is still the best, but it now needs a functions tune up, not anymore fancy paint jobs or fancy exhaust pipes. Just listen to all the users who have so much more experience with it. The pros are trying to tell you something, you must listen to them!!

Bier
Anonymous
Not applicable
Bricklyne wrote:
Compare the post linking the Vectoworks presentation previewing their product line up to 2011 when they expect to make it a fully BIM product, along with their general roadmap, to the yearly silent treatment we get from Graphisoft, over here - especially prior to new releases (and even after the actual releases).
Would you happen to know where this post is? This would make informative reading...
Anonymous
Not applicable


Here's the article:

http://www.architosh.com/news/2008-09/0917_press-day1.html


One of my favorite charts in the keynote presentation was the one focused on describing where the competition was in terms of 3D modeling. (see image 08 above). This slide compared Vectorworks Architect, Revit, Bentley Microstation, and ArchiCAD, across a range of 3D capabilities, including in order:

Planer Surfaces: The basics of 3D modeling (think SketchUp)
Solid Modeling
NURBS - based modeling
3D Parametrics
If you look closely at the picture above you'll see that Vectorworks 2010, the next planned release, will have full support for all four types of modeling built into the application, and that with the exception of 3D parametrics, Vectorworks 2009 today has both NURBS and Solid Modeling.
Anonymous
Not applicable
Well G.S./Nemetschek what do you have to say about this??
Are we being downgraded??
Please don't be silent now.
Your silence will hurt you more than you realize!
Bier