!Restored: ¿News about AC 12?
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2008-05-09 09:47 AM
¿Anybody knows anything about AC 12, please?
I'm hearing rumours, but nothing concrete...
Thanks a lot and regards.
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2008-05-27 11:10 AM
Bricklyne wrote:"Gestapo"...
Either way, the secrecy and the comical PR management is just basically atrocious, and will do nothing more than harm them eventually.
I think you're quite far off target here.
– Would you honestly say that it's common practice to let your resellers publicly distribute info about unannounced products?
– Do you honestly think that a secrecy policy regarding unnannounced products has been harming other companies? Like Apple, for instance?
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2008-05-27 11:33 AM
Thomas wrote:Not necessarily. Sometimes I will agree that it can be harmful. But if the company in question is in control of the information being disbursed and is indeed the one distributing the information, then they wouldn't have to worry about being harmed by unannounced products or information, in the first place. Such as, with the example I gave previously (Feversoft with Fryrender).
– Do you honestly think that a secrecy policy regarding unnannounced products has been harming other companies? Like Apple, for instance?
Thomas wrote:Um.....yes I would. Especially when it will help the reseller push more volume (sell more products) out of the door when the product is eventually released and especially when the information they are releasing has been permitted and sanctioned by the developer themselves. It's actually quite a common modern marketing strategy. How many times did you read about Mentalray being integrated into Revit, from resellers, long before they released Revit 2009? Or into AutoCAD the yaer before? Like I said before, if they manage and control the information being released, then none of all this other stuff would be an issue.
– Would you honestly say that it's common practice to let your resellers publicly distribute info about unannounced products?
As for the gestapo comment, the only other place or forum I saw this kind of developer-reaction to customer speculation about a pre-released product (i.e. deleting users comments on their own forums for example, along with forcing other sites to take down information of their products) was at the Nextlimit Maxwell render forums during their now infamous and well-renowned beta/RC's fiasco stage (Oreopoulos never catches a break, here nor there, it seems). They garnered a whole lot of bad publicity and flak for how they handled that whole episode and have since learned their lesson to the degree that even they themselves now make a habit of releasing whitepapers and pre-release information of upcoming products long before they release the product into the public.
They also vastly improved customer relations vis-a-vis their interaction with clients on their forums, since then.
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2008-05-27 12:26 PM
I can inform you that (just like with Apple and others) features get tweaked, changed, revised, scrapped, and even sometimes added late in the development cycle. It would be simply foolish to allow speculative information contaminate the official channels before the
I've seen this with several companies where I've had the privilege to participate in alpha or beta-testing of software. Graphisoft is no exception. If they did otherwise, they would just be accused of making vaporware. That would be disastrous, I think, for a company that makes its living catering for professionals. They should not make promises they can't fulfill. That is paramount.
To be accused of to much secrecy is a breeze compared to losing client's confidence. We all know that! You too, I'd say.
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2008-05-27 01:59 PM
If you agree, you don't spread news. If you don't agree, you don't sign and do something else. It's a simple agreement and it is widely used with commercial software development.
If Graphisoft decides not to spread news about features that are "under development", then they can do so. End users would be complaining if a beta-feature will not be available in the final version, wouldn't they?
Different people mentioned the "leaked" information to Graphisoft, including links to illegal downloads. And then GS can contact site owners to request removal of the content.
Archicad28/Revit2024/Rhino8/Solibri/Zoom
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my Archicad Book
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2008-05-27 03:34 PM
Bricklyne wrote:The information about Archicad 12 is Graphisoft's intellectual property. Whether we like it or not, they do have the right to protect it. Try violating a non-disclosure with Microsoft sometime. You'll disappear off the planet.
....this is unbelievably ridiculous, to say the least. I'm surprised they haven't just gone ahead and deleted the entire thread - but maybe that's yet to come. Forcing the Finnish site to take down their web-page was an especially nice, cosa-nostrian, touch.
Someone before had mentioned something to do with Communist era gestapo-like mentality regarding this whole secrecy spiel
What's interesting to me is that late May/early June was the release date for AC11. It seems to me like GS has some explaining to do about missing their "one year upgrade".
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2008-05-27 04:18 PM
TomWaltz wrote:No so much, yet. My calendar says May 27.
What's interesting to me is that late May/early June was the release date for AC11. It seems to me like GS has some explaining to do about missing their "one year upgrade".
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2008-05-27 04:30 PM
I can't wait anymore
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Best regards
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2008-05-27 04:37 PM
el.antuan wrote:Yes. May 27 is today
Wow! It's TODAY!
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2008-05-27 07:40 PM
Thomas wrote:
I have numerous gripes with Graphisoft's marketing. But this isn't one of them!
I can inform you that (just like with Apple and others) features get tweaked, changed, revised, scrapped, and even sometimes added late in the development cycle. It would be simply foolish to allow speculative information contaminate the official channels before thecompleteand final feature set is fixed in detail. And that will happen very shortly before the official announcement is made.
I've seen this with several companies where I've had the privilege to participate in alpha or beta-testing of software. Graphisoft is no exception. If they did otherwise, they would just be accused of makingvaporware. That would be disastrous, I think, for a company that makes its living catering for professionals. They should not make promises they can't fulfill. That is paramount.
To be accused of to much secrecy is a breeze compared to losing client's confidence. We all know that! You too, I'd say.
I assume when you refer to
stefan wrote:
Everyone that participates in the beta test signs a non-disclosure agreement.
If you agree, you don't spread news. If you don't agree, you don't sign and do something else. It's a simple agreement and it is widely used with commercial software development.
If Graphisoft decides not to spread news about features that are "under development", then they can do so. End users would be complaining if a beta-feature will not be available in the final version, wouldn't they?
Different people mentioned the "leaked" information to Graphisoft, including links to illegal downloads. And then GS can contact site owners to request removal of the content.
I was not in any way advocating violations of Graphisoft's NDA's with their Beta-testers and resellers nor encouraging any "leaking" of non-sanctioned information of any sort. In fact quite the opposite.
My argument had been that if Graphisoft willingly disseminated controlled information either through resellers or through selected media outlets of known-features in the upcoming versions, then they really wouldn't have to resort to alarmist measures such as deleting legitimate users' speculative posts (such as they've done on this thread), or asking their own resellers to stop posting features that are probably going to be in the release anyway, and when those resellers are only doing that as a way of drumming up interest in their (the Finnish resellers') own specific customer base.
All of this, of course, is in contradistinction to actual leaked versions of the unreleased program and to illegal downloads, none of which I was referring to and all of whose fault lies squarely on GS own doorstop by not controlling their Beta-testers and beta-testing process efficiently enough, and not with legitimate users asking questions on their forum nor resellers trying to sell GS more licenses.
I mean, if they really haven't locked down their feature-set mere weeks before the expected release date (and by the time they make a presentation during a forum such as the AIA convention in Boston that they themselves attended last week), such that they would know for certain what will be included and what will be omitted then they have bigger problems than leaked information IMO. By then they can't be accused of vaporware or anything like that since they pretty much know what they've included for sure and what wouldn't be there.
It's all just a basic question of managing user expectations and so far they've done a miserable job of it, with no signs that they're likely to improve any time soon; especially with the whole deleting users' posts and all. Talk about losing customer's confidence, or at least trying very hard to.
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2008-05-27 08:26 PM
Stefan stated the case simply. Every other manufacturer operates the same way as Graphisoft is. So, a Texas reseller might have been booted? And unauthorized information on web sites was taken down. How is this wrong or unusual?
Apple shut down a rumors site this past year as many know. IBM, Apple, Microsoft, etc. aggressively protected their intellectual rights - why shouldn't Graphisoft?
As all other manufacturers - GS has apparently provided pre-release marketing materials to resellers, so that they can prepare their web site etc in order to be ready to market on day 1 of the official release. This, too, is no different than Apple: MacMall and all Apple resellers are ready on day 1 to put up web pages selling new products. You can be guaranteed that they have had this info for some time, and know that they will not be Apple resellers any longer if they leak any of it.
So, why the screaming about Graphisoft?
M.A.D. knew better, and presumably has a financial penalty to pay for violating their contract. Who knows. But the fact that somebody violated a contract doesn't all of a sudden make all information fair game, and GS the evil demon for maintaining their established schedule.
If GS talked about 12 at AIA Boston and other venues, then unless the people listening signed an agreement, they can share what they learned here. Those under agreement cannot (legally) do so.
Relax,
Karl