!Restored: Whatever happened to MEP package?

[Richard Morrison]

There was an announcement at the San Antonio Users Group last May that GS had an MEP package in beta, that was due to be released in the summer of 2007. Whatever happened to this?

[Anonymous]

Steve wrote:
If ArchiCAD was all that it could be, there would be no need for Constructor.

I respectfully disagree.

ArchiCad is a design tool, and a BIM one on that.

VICO is a construction management tool, which happens to share the same building module as Archicad.

I really don´t want to have to worry about how many teams of carpenters will be allocated to a specific floor on a specific schedule, or to compare biddings from subcontractors to build the structure, while I am designing the architectural solution.

Don´t mistake Constructor for VICO, because it is only a third of the suite.

[TomWaltz]

Krippahl wrote:

Steve wrote:
If ArchiCAD was all that it could be, there would be no need for Constructor.

I respectfully disagree.

ArchiCad is a design tool, and a BIM one on that.

VICO is a construction management tool, which happens to share the same building module as Archicad..

I'm with Krippahl on this one. Some tools are different enough to have similar functions but different goals. It's like saying "If Word was all it could be, there'd be no need for PowerPoint and Excel". They have have overlapping abilities (like tables and formatting text) and still require a full program for the specific goals.

VICO and Archicad may have overlapping functions, but they aren't made for the same purpose.

[Shivang Rajvir]

Agreed Agreed.

If they start packing everything in one pack/tool than we'll have complains about its Speed, Ease of use, INterface etc etc.

I think its better to have both the things different, D'sign is not Construction for me !

and its great that i can transfer my model from ArchiCAD to Constructor.
i am happy with it.

[Steve Jepson]

Krippahl wrote:

Steve wrote:
If ArchiCAD was all that it could be, there would be no need for Constructor.

I respectfully disagree.

ArchiCad is a design tool, and a BIM one on that.

VICO is a construction management tool, which happens to share the same building module as Archicad.

I really don´t want to have to worry about how many teams of carpenters will be allocated to a specific floor on a specific schedule, or to compare biddings from subcontractors to build the structure, while I am designing the architectural solution.

Don´t mistake Constructor for VICO, because it is only a third of the suite.

I was not comparing ArchiCAD to VICO Software, only to Constructor. I do understand the difference. I am not talking about any sort of project management tools either.
I am talking only about the ArchiCAD add-on's like the MEP Modeler, SiteSurvey, etc...which are part of creating the BIM.

Can there be any doubt that these would be available for use with ArchiCAD if they were not in Constructor?

I realize that Vico is an independent company form Nemetschek but what are the agreements between the two companies with regard to ArchiCAD?

Where did Vico get the MEP Modeler and the other add-on's for ArchiCAD that come with Constructor? I think it is entirely possible that they came from Graphisoft in the first place.

What prevents Graphisoft from making these available for use with ArchiCAD?

Now think of it in the context of future development of both ArchiCAD and Constructor. In order to legitimize its status as world class BIM software, ArchiCAD must have either the ability to process its own BI into useful schedules and documents, or the ability to export the BI into other programs that can. If you can't access the BI it is useless!
Which will it be? Does Constructor and its relationship to ArchiCAD and Graphisoft have any impact on this direction? Of course it does!
Are either of them going to tell us what this relationship is and how it effects the future development of these products? No!

Do you still disagree that ArchiCAD is not what it could be because of Constructor?

Am I the only one that sees this as a conflict of interest?

Download the Constructor Demo. Look at some of the files that are not ArchiCAD and see who has the copy rights to it. It looks to me like Graphisoft has provided add-ons for Constructor that are not available otherwise. There could be some reasonable explanation, I don’t know.

I do know that I like Constructor. I wish I could afford it.

[Dennis Lee]

slightly off topic, but my Constructor demo hangs during installation. it says it's doing some .net framework or something like that...

did this happen to u at all steve?

[Steve Jepson]

"It's like saying "If Word was all it could be, there'd be no need for PowerPoint and Excel". They have have overlapping abilities (like tables and formatting text) and still require a full program for the specific goals.

VICO and Archicad may have overlapping functions, but they aren't made for the same purpose."

Overlapping functions are not the issue I am refereing to at all.

It is the additional functions that Constructor has by way of ArchiCAD add-ons that I am talking about. Not it's other project management tools and software.

Specifically, the MEP Modeler, SiteSurveying, etc... These are not available for use with ArchiCAD. I think they would be if it were not for Constructor.

Do you disagree about that?

[Steve Jepson]

Dennis wrote:
slightly off topic, but my Constructor demo hangs during installation. it says it's doing some .net framework or something like that...

did this happen to u at all steve?

Yes. I did have to download a newer version of net frameworks.

[Anonymous]

Steve wrote:

I was not comparing ArchiCAD to VICO Software, only to Constructor.

My bad, sorry. Still, Constructor is not just ArchiCad with more modelling capabilities, it has all the linkage capabilities to Estimator, Control, 5D presenter, Cost and Change manager, Databases, etc.

Steve wrote:
I am talking only about the ArchiCAD add-on's like the MEP Modeler, SiteSurvey, etc...which are part of creating the BIM.

Well, I´m really not sure about that (Site survey yes, but that is a minor point). Have you ever tried to model MEP with Constructor from your engineers drawings? Because this is what you are asking for.

Typically, the MEP modeling of a Constructor job takes about 50% of the total time, so, as an architect, to have to translate manually the 2D MEP drawings into my model is something that I really don´t want to do. Who is going to pay for these hundreds of hours? Worse, after I discover in the model that there are crass mistakes made by the Hvac guys, and asking for the corrections, I will have to correct the model manually again.

I do not think this is the way. We are talking about hundreds of extra hours, doing manually something that should come automatically from the IFC model.

Modeling the MEP in Constructor is logical, because everything is modeled from scratch. In ArchiCad though, the architecture model is developed directly, so I really don´t want to model MEP and structure again and again, while the engineers reap the benefits of my work.

Let them send me the IFC model. After all, THAT'S what BIM is all about...

[Ralph Wessel]

Steve wrote:
Where did Vico get the MEP Modeler and the other add-on's for ArchiCAD that come with Constructor? I think it is entirely possible that they came from Graphisoft in the first place.

The MEP modeller was the DuctWork (HVAC for ArchiCAD) add-on, developed at Cymap with Graphisoft. It was much more than objects, providing full 3D duct routing, automatic connection of ductwork and outlets (with branches, tees, reducers etc), and wall penetrations. It also managed ductwork systems. It originally worked in ArchiCAD (before Constructor existed).

[Anonymous]

Hi!
Look screenshort of Special menus on this page: http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=23969
I see the interesting command - "MEP Topology check".
This may be an occasion for reflection?