Zones not recognising columns

[DGSketcher]

I have just created a complex profile column to resolve a number of walls forming a messy junction which has worked as hoped, but as a consequence the zone partly contained by the column cannot resolve the space. I have since tried this with a basic rectangular column with the walls stopping either side rather than passing through and get the same result.

I'm pretty sure this arrangement worked with zones in previous versions. Can anyone else confirm if they have the same issue.

I'm on AC20 Build 3016 UKI FULL

My current work around is to draw a polyline acting as a zone boundary to bridge around the column between walls.

[David Maudlin]

DGSketcher:

I don't know that this is the issue, but have you checked Project Preferences > Zones > Wall & Column Subtraction to see if the Column size limit is correct?

David

[DGSketcher]

David:

Thanks for the response, hadn't checked but the column subtraction is set to default at >0.1m2 and 100%

I have since tried this with default templates simply creating a rectangular space with the default walls and placing a 1m x 1m column in the corner and pulling the walls back to the column faces. I got the same result in v19 & v15.

It would appear that AC will not interpret a column as a boundary object if an automatically generated zone boundary cannot be determined from other elements e.g. walls or lines prior to considering the impact of the column on the zone. I have subsequently identified that this also applies to the creation of fills with the magic wand.

I don't know what other think but when there is a setting in the column tool that indicate the columns relation to zones will be as a "zone boundary" you sort of expect it to work as part of a boundary?

[Barry Kelly]

The zone will reduce around a column but only if the walls still form a continuous boundary.
So if your column has a stronger Building Material than the wall it will cut the wall away in plan.
Or add a zone boundary line as you suggested.

But I agree the column should act as the boundary itself - seeing as it has a setting to act as a zone boundary.
There may be times when you want to model wall between the columns rather than continuous wall with the columns cutting them.

Barry.

[Laszlo Nagy]

DGSketcher,

Can you post an image of the exact situation? Maybe we will be smarter when we see the exact geometries.

[DGSketcher]

Hi Laszlo,

I don't think you will be able to fix this one unless you can get GS to sort out the programming. Even simple columns are not considered part of an area boundary but their projection into the area will be considered according to the column zone relation setting.

It is easy to test. Simply form an open boundary with walls then use a column to close the boundary. The column is ignored and an error message of "no boundary found" is issued.

You can use PBC and pass a boundary creating element through the column and everything is ok but in my case I was creating a 3D "patch" for a complex wall junction that was too much of a challenge for AC using ordinary junction options.

Trevor

[Barry Kelly]

Here is an image that should explain the problem simply.

So even though the columns say they are set as 'zone boundaries' they only do so if there are still walls that form a continuous boundary.

Barry.

[Laszlo Nagy]

Yes, this seems to me like a case that was not considered and handled by the programmers. I will forward this issue to GRAPHISOFT.
Until it is fixed I would simply use "Zone Boundary" Lines drawn below the Column boundaries to achieve the desired effect.

[DGSketcher]

Thanks Laszlo. I do think as our models become ever more complex the use of columns for the situation I have shown will be needed more often.

[Laszlo Nagy]

Yes, I agree. ARCHICAD should be intelligent enough to handle such Zone Boundary situations.

To the developers' defence: it may not be such a trivial thing to do since Walls have a Reference Line and Zones can be set to recognize the Reference Lines of Walls. So when there is a gap in the Reference Lines of its bounding Walls, then it would have to check for other types of possible boundaries. May not be so trivial from a programming standpoint.