plotmaker inside AC or separated

[Anonymous]

I know it is an old debate but searching for "Plotmaker inside Archicad" or plotmaker standalone" I found nothing in the wish subject.
I just went to a Re*it demonstration (another debate, but how fast it is to publish inside Re*it)
I think the answer is: both.
Inside AC for 99% of the projects and standalone for special cases.
I am convinced Plotmaker should work inside AC especially since we have the navigator. Most of the things have to be settled inside the view editor and most of our prints come from a single AC file (plans, sections, elevations, details, what else in most of our work?).
This way, I expect the prints to be refreshed with the editor redefine button and generally speaking to cut the incredible slowness of Plotmaker update.
And for special case with layout of mixed files, why not a standalone PM?

[Anonymous]

I cannot see wasting the time and energy to incorporate PM into the AC application, while also maintaining a stand-alone version. What we have now works fairly well. I can agree that the update speed could be improved, but for the most part I feel that Graphisoft has gotten this one right.

Our files always have at least two projects that are imported to PM; a site and building model. This would mean always using the standalone version.

I actually do not see a great benefit to having PM in archicad. I always seem to have both programs open and just toggle between them when adjustments need to be made.

[Anonymous]

Millard wrote:
... What we have now works fairly well. I can agree that the update speed could be improved, but for the most part I feel that Graphisoft has gotten this one right.

Our files always have at least two projects that are imported to PM; a site and building model. This would mean always using the standalone version.
.

Ok, if your policy is to always have 2 files.
Personally, I rather use modules or X-ref for site data et models
But PM… soooo slow… soooo many bizarre messages… so many AC tools that do not work the same way in PM
I cannot imagine 2 linked programs as optimized as one.

[Rob]

I cannot see wasting the time and energy to incorporate PM into the AC application, while also maintaining a stand-alone version.

Well, in fact, there is no wasting time and energy on current PM as the major tools don't work in it! But it would be, if GS would try to double all the code separately for AC and PM. PM should definitely be incorporated into AC somehow as a 'semi-standalone option' that runs FULLY on AC core code, however with its own file format and options to import another drawings from different plns. Sort of having the Start window with options to AC mode, PM mode (undongled) or both (sharing and switching through the navigator within the pln). Let's face it, it's a bit silly to open background AC, then PM, reload all the libraries again without all good AC features and having so 3 applications running (including source file AC) and munching comp resources/speed. It requires a completely new approach for sure. I just wonder how it works with Revit and/or other applications. They have had to address this problem somehow. At the moment it's a bit paranoic solution.
I vote essential.

[Djordje]

This really belongs in a different forum, so I will move it now.

I am known as a big advocate of the separate PlotMaker - BUT, changing my views a bit recently, as for many reasons the integration should be beneficial:

- same tools/shortcuts
- GDL in title blocks/sheets
- DWG export
- ... add what bothers you

The biggest problem will be "TOLD YOU SO!" from the Revit camp ... and if it is going to be integrated, please let it NOT look like PaperSpace!!! The other will be - if integrated, will it work without the dongle? Somehow I don't see that ...

[Djordje]

This really belongs in a different forum, so I will move it now.

I am known as a big advocate of the separate PlotMaker - BUT, changing my views a bit recently, as for many reasons the integration should be beneficial:

- same tools/shortcuts
- GDL in title blocks/sheets
- DWG export
- ... add what bothers you

The biggest problem will be "TOLD YOU SO!" from the Revit camp ... and if it is going to be integrated, please let it NOT look like PaperSpace!!! The other will be - if integrated, will it work without the dongle? Somehow I don't see that ...

[Rob]

The biggest problem will be "TOLD YOU SO!" from the Revit camp ...

Well, I wouldn't give a ... about this one. If it works and it's more beneficial for the workflow then the current status let's adopt that asap!
I am pretty sure that all major applications in AEC have integrated layout output facilities and they don't tend to break it off the main application. In my opinion they would have done that long time ago if it would have got proven its qualities or any major advantage. I think that current PM has more disadvantages then advantages on its side at the moment.

[Anonymous]

Well Djordje, I don't really care if my wish is not anymore a wish…
We actually work in a fairly big and complex program, having to manage from very large scale to local construction drawings. I also complained about Attribute Manager into PM in another topic. Anyway…
As you moved that to Archicad+ and the good old debate about THE COMPETITOR, I just want to give my opinion; I recently went to a Re*it demonstration, good and less convincing stuff, nothing completely "next BIM generation" as they repeat (and again, and the bigA people around shaking their heads and smiling, world upset down!)
There could be discussions on about 100 topics, I would focus to 2 major issues giving (I thing) the competitor an advantage:
• Speed (sections and layouts, yes, yes, integrated and fast printing solution)
• Price (at least in small European countries)
First point is my major concern, (we already bought AC!) but the 2nd will hurt much more, this is something no artful demonstration can hide.
And two a little less important (probably more related to our architect dreams of design than to real life's practice):
• Modelling ("solid" buiding stuff, not just good looking shapes in 3d)
• Massing
And finally, a point that could be an advantage and a disadvantage, depending of GS:
• Engineers
That now 15 years I hear bigA telling architects they must use the same environment that the engineers use, now with Re*it, they and to reverse the propaganda.
If GS really promote (who else can?) direct links to successful (and why not new and AC based standalone) engineer's solutions, competition will remain interesting.

[gerd]

hello,

by accident I read this topic and would like to tell my opinion:

* making layout of plans and working on the building model are totally different. so there are different ways to work and the concept of separate archicad and plotmaker is a good representation of this topic.
* the tree structure in plotmaker is great for this program, but I don't want to get something like this in archicad
* in the plotmaker it is very easy to combine different plans from different pmk files. with pmk files you can fix a version to publish, while working ion the model (if not necessary you can link the plkn directly: its good to have both options)
* it is easy to place two copies of a plan with different coulour tables. I use this sometimes to show the story below (visible areas; nearly the same than ghost story) in buildings with a hall (2 story height) and an office area. it will be difficult to make things like this in one program
* of course I miss some functions in plotmaker (attributmanager, different missing options when working with drawings...), hope they will add this ...
* I hope, graphisoft people will put more layout relevant functions inside plotmaker, for example pdf import (not with 'ole' but with possibility to edit), or some graphical things like possibility to change brightness of picture or color gradient. It will help, if those things are in the plotmaker, not all of it is necessary in archicad

best regards, gerd

[Anonymous]

Better to update PM with all of our needs as integrate it in to AC.

I compare your wish/question with the question like this: "what's better, to
write a large/complex script for GDL object in one file without MACROS, or
some small/easy files(Main+Macros)?".