Rendering

[Anonymous]

I cant understand why ArchiCAD has such a poor renderer, this is surely costing Graphisoft huge amounts of lost sales to Architectural Desktop et al that link to VIZ render and 3DS Max

I personally use ArchiCAD and Max together, but there isnt a very good link between the programs, probably because they are from competing companies.

Have graphisoft thought of including something like Mental Ray with ArchiCAD in the same way as Max 6?

[stefan]

The rendering quality of ArchiCAD is mediocre. All shall agree.

The 'connection' between ArchiCAD and 3ds max/VIZ and others is not that bad. The 3ds-export and the obj-export are both usable and most 3D-applications support at least one of them.

From ArchiCAD to Cinema4D
http://www2.asro.kuleuven.ac.be/asro/English/HOME/SBs/tutorial/tips/ac2c4d.htm

From ArchiCAD to others
http://www2.asro.kuleuven.ac.be/asro/English/HOME/SBs/render/render.htm
and
http://www2.asro.kuleuven.ac.be/asro/English/HOME/SBs/tutorial/shootout/shootout.htm

And for max/VIZ
http://www2.asro.kuleuven.ac.be/asro/English/HOME/SBs/render/3dstudio.htm

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Mental Ray is such a specific rendering tool, that you need a "host" with enough control over lights & materials. ArchiCAD is not that host. 3ds max, maya & xsi are much better suited to prepare Mental Ray content (they have much more control over material-parameters, import/export, scene settings etc...)

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I hope Graphisoft will someday find a usable yet userfriendly rendering plugin for ArchiCAD (like AV_Works or ArchiLumos) and include it in the main box, instead of requiring an expensive add-on.

But if they had to choose to what parts to devote their development, then rendering is probably not that high on the priority-list. It can be done as it is now, so no real need.

[Anonymous]

Good point, the only problem is that AutoDesk Revit has a competetive advantage over ArchiCAD in that the same company also owns 3DS Max

I am still happy using ArchiCAD and Max together, an I dont think its that hard to do (in fact using archicad as a modeller to produce AutoCAD 2D drawings is better than the AutoDesk equivalent), but graphisoft may have trouble convincing people.

The cost of ArchiCAD and Viz or Max is greater than Revit and Viz or Max I beleive.

[Anonymous]

Maybe we should have a thread for 3DS Max?

[Djordje]

Andydob wrote:
Good point, the only problem is that AutoDesk Revit has a competetive advantage over ArchiCAD in that the same company also owns 3DS Max

AFAIK it includes AccuRender, which is an independent product? Last version I checked (5) does not have much more connection to the discreet (no, not the same company, except it is also bought by Autodesk as Revit is) products than ArchiCAD. Then again, I might be wrong? I tend not to read the marketing texts too much ...

It is true that ArchiCAD's rendering is bad for these times. Was quite adequate in early days, and still is for quick and drity shots, especially the Sketch one.

However, ArchiCAD is NOT modeling&rendering software, which is pretty popular misconception about it. It is the architectural CAD software, for the architectural design and construction documentation production.

In the typical workflow, it is very probable that the final renderings, which take as much specialized knowledge and time as the design and the construction documentation production, will be done by a dedicated person with a software of their choice, using the same ArchiCAD model. Here is where the proper link becomes essential.

As Stefan said, I personally am more interested in the engineering aspects and tools of ArchiCAD being rich and abundant and working flawlessly, than the rendering part.

[Djordje]

Andydob wrote:
I am still happy using ArchiCAD and Max together, an I dont think its that hard to do (in fact using archicad as a modeller to produce AutoCAD 2D drawings is better than the AutoDesk equivalent), but graphisoft may have trouble convincing people.

Depends on what the people have to do.

On the other hand - you do not need to produce andy AutoCAD drawings in ArchiCAD. 2D in ArchiCAD is as good as any AutoCAD 2D (personal opinion!) and whatever the software, the output does not depend on the software, but on the people using it.

ArchiCAD is equipped for the full architectural production process - except high quality rendering which, if you scrutinize it closely, is not exactly what you need on the building site, except for the site board.

Just IMHO, as always.

[rgarand]

Remember too that AutoCAD (Arch. Desktop2004) is a CAD package ($4195 USD) and 3D Studio VIZ is a Modeling rendering package ($1895 USD). That is $6090 USD. ArchiCAD was $3160 USD when we bought 8.0. So for about half the price you get a pretty good rendering/modeling program.

I have been 3D modeling and rendering for over 10 years now and I have not found a single program that can produce a great rendering. I typically use a minimum of 3 programs for rendering: a modeling program, a rendering program and a post production program. Right now we are moving from Vectorworks/Cinema 4D/Photoshop to ArchiCAD/Cinema 4D/Photoshop.

Just my 2 cents.

[stefan]

rgarand wrote:
Remember too that AutoCAD (Arch. Desktop2004) is a CAD package ($4195 USD) and 3D Studio VIZ is a Modeling rendering package ($1895 USD). That is $6090 USD. ArchiCAD was $3160 USD when we bought 8.0. So for about half the price you get a pretty good rendering/modeling program.

Architectural Desktop 2004 includes a decent rendering solution VIZ Render (which is enough for most people). You still need VIZ or max for better animation and modelling and more material-control, but VIZ Render is capable.

rgarand wrote:
I have been 3D modeling and rendering for over 10 years now and I have not found a single program that can produce a great rendering. I typically use a minimum of 3 programs for rendering: a modeling program, a rendering program and a post production program. Right now we are moving from Vectorworks/Cinema 4D/Photoshop to ArchiCAD/Cinema 4D/Photoshop.
Just my 2 cents.

A single program that can produce a great rendering? You mean a CAD-program?

TurboCAD, Microstation, Revit and now Architectural Desktop all have very good rendering. You sure need to learn to use it, but that goes for all rendering software.

Is the combination VectorWorks-Cinema4D not good? Did you use the link between the two? Or is the upgrade mainly for the ArchiCAD Virtual Building?

ArchiCAD + Cinema4D + Photoshop is probably all you'll ever need to get everything done fine. Maybe add something like Premiere & After Effects and you can do full visualisation services as well 🙂

[Anonymous]

I have had continuing problems with ArchiCAD 8's rendering engine, actually one in particular, that basically makes it useless for any kind of photorendering. I have done some tests to illustrate this and the writeup is here:

http://members.ydl.net/ammacdon/photorender_errors/archicad_lighting_test.html

When we moved to archicad we expected to be able to use the built in photorendering capabilities; since upgrading to archicad 8, we have been unable to do so.

[Djordje]

"ammacdon" wrote:
I have had continuing problems with ArchiCAD 8's rendering engine, actually one in particular, that basically makes it useless for any kind of photorendering./quote]

Switch the shadows on and try again.