ArchiCAD/Revit shootout proposal

[Djordje]

Canadians, are you ready?

There is a proposal on Revit discussion group to organize a shootout.

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1806

Good idea! With good people on both sides this can turn into a VERY interesting event!

[Djordje]

Scott wrote:
I think that Revit has its own way of defining the 'special snap points', but the concepts are similar.

It would be quite surprising if they were not 😉

The good thing about Special snap points is that they happen on the fly - you do NOT have to dimension or do any operation at all, just place the cursor on an edge and it is divided as set ... and, you can use them in conjuction with anything else - for example, start a wall from a third of a distance between a third of one wall and three fifiths of another ... I find this extremely useful, as I tend to set up the structural frame first, and then work in subdivisions, leaving the dimensioning for the final CD set.

Scott wrote:
For instance, I can place four windows in a wall, dimension to the center of each window, and set an 'equal' constraint. These windows will now remain eqidistant from each other. If I grab one and move it, the other react accordingly.

This is good behaviour; you already explained that it does not insist on relationships all the time. How easy it is to kill the links, especially late into a project (and restore them afterwards)? Does it ever choke the machine or get confused? I am probably too old fashioned to believe the machine too much ... to s.c.r.e.w up is human, but to REALLY s.c.r.e.w up you need a computer 😉 Murphy's law.

Can you place anything geometrically precisely somewhere without dimensioning?

Scott wrote:

Djordje wrote:
2. Relative construction constraints: Perpendicular, parallel, bisectrix, offset, multiple offset, and a free floating Special Snap Points tool

Revit has all of these, just with different terminology. Geometry 'snaps' to other geometry, or displays 'apparent' snaps with reference lines.

No reference lines needed at all (IMHO 😉. Does it also work in 3D views?

AFAIR you do have angle and co-ordinate locking? Last Revit I had the time to look at was 5 ...

Scott wrote:

Djordje wrote:
3. Magic Wand - can generate any polygonal element to any closed or almost closed outline (closes the outline automatically) or trace any linear element along the polygon's perimeter. Also can be used for subtracting, joining, adding polygonal elements. The main culprit fora house in six clicks.

Revit tools react in the same way, its not magical.

The name of the tool is Magic wand And the icon IS Magic wand!

Again, I would be surprised if you did not have something similar - polygon recognition is not unheard of

How is polygon editing in Revit (slabs, roofs, meshes, fills)? That is one of the OOH factors of anyone who starts on ArchiCAD IMHE.

It would be good if not a shootout, but a user meet could be set up. Like student exchange programs ...

Heck, India and Pakistan are playing cricket in Karachi!!!

[Scott Davis]

How easy it is to kill the links, especially late into a project (and restore them afterwards)? Does it ever choke the machine or get confused?

It's very easy to kill links. Move an object, and a dialog will warn that it's constrained to another, with the ability to 'remove constraints.' If something is constrained by a dimension, just delete the dimension. I've never had it get confused or choke the machine.

Can you place anything geometrically precisely somewhere without dimensioning?

Yep, direct numerical entry is available. ie: start a wall, drag the direction you want, type the distance it needs to go. Also, Revit has "temp. dims." that only appear when placing or modifying objects. Select an object and temporary dimensions appear, tying to nearby objects. Click on a temp dim, change the number, and the geometry updates. Temp Dims can also be made 'permanent dimensions' by clicking on a control icon on the temp dim.

No reference lines needed at all (IMHO . Does it also work in 3D views?

Reference lines are the wrong terminology, and don't explain what I was talking about. Maybe I should call them Temporary Tracking Lines. As you hoover over the drawing area, actual and perceived snap points appear at your cursor, and the "tracking" lines appear to show the geometry the snap is associated with. For instance, you may be 20 feet from the nearest geometry, but a perceived snap between an arc'd wall and a straight wall across the model may appear at your cursor.

How is polygon editing in Revit (slabs, roofs, meshes, fills)?

Much of the solid geometry in Revit is based on a sketch. For instance, a roof is a sketch of the plan view of the roof, while the sketch lines themselves control roof slope, overhang, etc. These sketch lines can be drawn freely with any on the available line, arc, circle, ellipse, spline, etc. drawing tools, or I can use the Pick tool to pick the underlying geometry. In the case of the roof. I would pick the walls that support the roof. I can also use TAB as described before to select a chain of lines.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Scott wrote:
Also, Revit has "temp. dims." that only appear when placing or modifying objects. Select an object and temporary dimensions appear, tying to nearby objects. Click on a temp dim, change the number, and the geometry updates. Temp Dims can also be made 'permanent dimensions' by clicking on a control icon on the temp dim.

Reference lines are the wrong terminology, and don't explain what I was talking about. Maybe I should call them Temporary Tracking Lines. As you hoover over the drawing area, actual and perceived snap points appear at your cursor, and the "tracking" lines appear to show the geometry the snap is associated with. For instance, you may be 20 feet from the nearest geometry, but a perceived snap between an arc'd wall and a straight wall across the model may appear at your cursor.

These are some of the things that immediately impressed me when demoing Revit. I wouldn't give up what we have in ArchiCAD ... but I would sure like to also have the fast, visual, user-friendly manipulation that these Revit features provide. You have to try it to appreciate it.

Karl

[Anonymous]

what's B.I.M?

[Anonymous]

Building Information Model

[stefan]

And what about the shootout?

[Rakela Raul]

yaaa, what about it......please include 'idecad'
from somewhere in europe

[Dwight]

Boston was the home of the Shootout, and it petered out I believe because of the challenges of comparing applications in such a short time - and because AutoDesk wouldn't participate [obviously not...]

Certainly their Revit product puts them at the forefront - as I remember Vectorworks was tight behind ArchiCAD last time.....

So much depends on the team that goes......

Who volunteers? Experts only, now?

[Karl Ottenstein]

Dwight wrote:
Who volunteers?

I'm up for being on the team, depending on where/when...

Karl

[Dwight]

So that's two.
Perhaps Matthew could join us if he isn't too busy making ArchiCAD TALK postings.

So now, all we need is a sponsor.