Enlarged plans

[Ugljesa Janjic]

How do I create a bubble for an enlarged bathroom plan and then drag that detail to the sheet? I can't seem to be able to use the detail tool for a live enlarged plan. It copies only lines and explodes it all.
Revit does this without a problem. Is there a trick to it?
Thanks.
Ugljesa

[Barry Kelly]

Here is a fairly detailed method of what I and many others do.
You can use a white masking fill in you large scale text layer then you don't need the 2 separate views to place as drawings in your layouts.
But you will be forever playing with the display order pushing some elements back and pulling others forward.

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=182148

One day we might get live details and worksheets.

Barry.

[Erich]

I work slightly differently than Barry.

I use specific layers for annotation for specific purposes (floor plan, reflected ceiling,electrical, structural, etc.) So if I need an enlarged plan, I will have a layer for those notes separate from any others. Then I will set up a view at the enlarged scale that uses the layer combination that includes the notes for the enlarged plan.

This view can then be placed on a layout and cropped as necessary. Back in your main floor plan, I would then place a linked detail bubble that references the previously placed enlarged plan.

This way, you have a completely live enlarged plan that is easy to work on and is nicely referenced in your drawing set.

[dcerezo]

We are relatively new to ArchiCAD, having come over from Revit, but this issue with Enlarged Plans and Details is really making us regret making the switch. The time it takes to do unit plans, enlarged bathroom and kitchen plans, enlarged stair plans, and corresponding annotations is insane.

What used to take us maybe 5 min tops, per unit plan, in Revit, is taking us like an hour in ArchiCAD because we have to create this layer or that, shut that one off, create a layer combination for this...it's ridiculous.

My question to all of those folks who have been using ArchiCAD for a long time is....really...is there no easier way?

[alemanda]

Erich wrote:
I work slightly differently than Barry.

I use specific layers for annotation for specific purposes (floor plan, reflected ceiling,electrical, structural, etc.) So if I need an enlarged plan, I will have a layer for those notes separate from any others. Then I will set up a view at the enlarged scale that uses the layer combination that includes the notes for the enlarged plan.

This view can then be placed on a layout and cropped as necessary. Back in your main floor plan, I would then place a linked detail bubble that references the previously placed enlarged plan.

This way, you have a completely live enlarged plan that is easy to work on and is nicely referenced in your drawing set.

I use the Erich Method.

@dcerezo: once you get the logic behind Archicad you will forget the others, even though some aspects and tools can be strongly enhanced and improved

[Erwin Edel]

dcerezo wrote:
We are relatively new to ArchiCAD, having come over from Revit, but this issue with Enlarged Plans and Details is really making us regret making the switch. The time it takes to do unit plans, enlarged bathroom and kitchen plans, enlarged stair plans, and corresponding annotations is insane.

What used to take us maybe 5 min tops, per unit plan, in Revit, is taking us like an hour in ArchiCAD because we have to create this layer or that, shut that one off, create a layer combination for this...it's ridiculous.

My question to all of those folks who have been using ArchiCAD for a long time is....really...is there no easier way?

Hi, using archicad for quite some time (since 2006). We have our model related output up to 1:50 scale, with very little 2D patching needed. 99% of 2D work there is annotation. We do use complex profiled walls / beams a lot to get connection details to show nicely in a 1:50 detail setting.

We then have 2D details 1:5 scale on A3 sheets. These are just independent details that make heavy use of smart 2D objects provided by our local library (at least in part I think) and some of our own 2D objects and just plain fills / linework.

Schedules of doors/windows with some 2D annotation / patching for where the door/window objects fall short of the end result.

Sometimes I do a 1:20 scale hybrid 3D / 2D enlarged plan for a steel stair case or similar things, but this is not a common thing in most projects for us.

We do about 70% of our work for new residential (villa) ranging from about 800 m³ to 2000 m³. Some renovation work (large scale renovation for residential) and some odd balls like a school or commercial / industrial bring up the other 30%. We do all building documentation from initial draft to construction, however things like structural engineering and MEP are outsourced (which I believe is fairly common, at least in NL).

I've never worked with Revit, so I can't really compare, however I don't feel like ArchiCAD forced us in to this workflow. I guess it all depends on how detailed you feel your documentation needs to go. This might be different for other fields of work to what our office is doing.

[Richard Morrison]

alemanda wrote:
I use the Erich Method.

I do, too. I don't see how this method would take even the 5 minutes that Revit would.

[dcerezo]

Thanks for the feedback guys, but perhaps I should go into a bit more detail so you can see why this is frustrating for us.

1. If we were doing one house or something like that, where we had a kitchen on the east side and bathroom on the west, and we wanted to do enlarged plans for those two areas...no problem.
2. Our situation is much more complex. We are designing 4 homes in a tight urban lot here in L.A. and each one is completely different from the other.
3. The separation between units is 12".
4. Each home is 3 stories.

We show each home 3 times:

1. Overall Plans - 1/8" scale. which show all the homes as they sit next to each other. Just large dimensions, not a lot of details.
2. Unit Plans - 1/4" scale. Full annotations, keynotes, etc, etc. We show all 3 floors plus the roof one ONE sheet. The contractors like this, as we do, because there is no flipping sheets on the job site. You see one entire unit, all floors, on one sheet.
3. Enlarged Plans - 1/2" or 1" (depends). Full annotations as required. Remember, each unit is different so we have to show various kitchens, bathrooms, etc.

Here is how we did this in Revit.

1. Draw a "marquee" if you will in the shape of the unit. A few clicks.
2. Create a view at a larger scale. One click.
3. Now I'm in that larger view, all objects are 3D and live, bi-directional, and I can annotate away. I don't see anything outside the marquee...i.e. the unit next door. I can tag windows, doors, etc.

To do the same thing in ArchiCAD, we could do 2 things (however, I think there's a 3rd we just discovered)

1. Detail view. The problem here is that these are all 2D elements. I can't tag the windows. I can't tag the doors. I can't tag zones, etc. Rebuilding is a pain and what if we forget. Plus lots of stuff re-sets when you Rebuild.
2. So we went with the Live View route that Barry showed. But we had to create sooooo many layers. Such a pain in the a**. We had to create Dimension layers for each unit, wall type tags for each unit, etc. AGAIN, the reason is because I just create one dimension layer, the dimensions from Unit B show on Unit A's enlarged plan....because they're only 12" apart.

We may have a 3rd way...what do you guys think....and why has no one mentioned this before? We are using the marquee tool to create a 3D Document floor plan. This seems to be working really well. Everything is live. You only see what we margueed. We don't have to create a ton of layers either. This seems promising.

I've attached some progress images from the project we're literally working on right now so you can see what I mean.

I don't know, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but this seems like a lot of hassle for something that I know is done super simply in that other software.

Anyway, can't wait for your thoughts.

[Richard Morrison]

Although AC doesn't have those marqueed views that Revit apparently has, a few tips may help:

1) You should check into hotlinked modules, and keep each unit as a separate module. Tracy Stone Architects did a free webinar for the Archicaduser site for just this situation, and has a interesting workflow that may be helpful. https://archicaduser.com/ Each unit is a separate module, which has its own "master" layer, and the units are composited together for the final documents. The units can be in separate files, or on separate stories in the same file, if you wish.

2) If seeing dimensions from a neighboring unit is annoying for the final documents, you can just reshape the view windows on the Layout to cut them off.

3) You can save zoomed views, not only in the View Map, but also as a separate named zoom for working purposes, which may be faster.

[dcerezo]

We will look into the module option for sure, and of course we'll check out the Tracy Stone webinar.

FYI, changing the shape of the layout doesn't work 100% because wall tags from other units often overlap and are impossible to hide, so we created 4 wall tag layers...one for each unit.

Thanks as always.