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!Restored: ¿News about AC 12?

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi all!


¿Anybody knows anything about AC 12, please?


I'm hearing rumours, but nothing concrete...


Thanks a lot and regards.



P.S. Like another user says: "forgive my spanglish..."
325 REPLIES 325
TomWaltz
Participant
oreopoulos wrote:
3) Being a beta tester is not as easy as you say, I have applied a couple of times but of course they only accept "yes men" appliers
Wow, brilliant logic there: "I can't get in, so every who does must be a yes man".
Tom Waltz
Dwight
Newcomer
Perhaps the beta-testing criterion you are referring to, instead of being "only 'yes' men" would be more appropriately described as "no disgruntled malcontents required here."

Beta testing success is not about whining for desired features not included in the beta after years of waiting but is about ensuring, through broad testing against real-life situations, that the product might actually function and be logical.

It is usually too late during beta testing to substantially alter application features, but when features fail to work properly, they can be eliminated.
Dwight Atkinson
Anonymous
Not applicable
Dwight wrote:
It is usually too late during beta testing to substantially alter application features, but when features fail to work properly, they can be eliminated.
I know what a beta phase is, and i did not say that if i get in it would play any role. That is another story! I just commented on a previous remark about how to be a beta tester. (contact your reseller it said)
Wow, brilliant logic there: "I can't get in, so every who does must be a yes man".
This is not what i said. This is a sophistry. This is not how generalization works in math. I said if you whine you cannt get in. If you are a yes men, you have more probabilities to get in.

Either way i really dont care. I just said that to explain why this product goes from bad to worst. It was decades infront Revit and now its clearly behind.
Electric Flute
Booster
Of course Graphisoft has the right do decide to hide or not news until the official release of AC.

But Graphisoft does need to change their relation with it's user base. Since the threat by Revit, Graphisoft changed some polices but it is not enough.

It would be nice if Graphisoft is more present in this forum and giving feedback to some wishes and pools the users create. I never create a pool because I feel an idiot, like wasting my time.

Feedback is the word!
AC26 > AC5 - Win10
TomWaltz
Participant
oreopoulos wrote:
Wow, brilliant logic there: "I can't get in, so every who does must be a yes man".
This is not what i said. <snip> I said if you whine you cannt get in. If you are a yes men, you have more probabilities to get in..
Now THAT is something you didn't say. You said nothing about whining or probabilities. You said:
they only accept "yes men" appliers
Nice attempt at backtracking though.
Tom Waltz
Anonymous
Not applicable
Just a couple of thoughts from a former Archicad user who may jump in again...

1. Archicad is invisible here in the USA.

2. Many firms are making the leap to BIM and it's ironic that Revit is the most visible and talked about option. Archicad pioneered this stuff but where are they?

3. Most employers cannot afford training anymore. This task has fallen to job applicants who are advised to take classes at community colleges. Revit is easy to find at one. I have never seen Archicad offered at one. Private training is out of the reach of most. Do they understand this?

4. Nemetschek's purchase of Archicad isn't really paying visible dividends.

What are they doing? Is there more marketing now? Are they sharing overhead like payroll? Can Vectorworks and Archicad now use the same file format? Or are they limited to speaking in dwg? I think that it's ironic that 2 programs owned by Nemetschek are limited to communicating through a file format made by Autodesk.

There just doesn't seem to be much going on here at Graphisoft. There's a huge shift in the marketplace and Graphisoft is pretty much out of view.

So what does 12 do that the current version doesn't and, more importantly, will it integrate with a structural program and one that does HVAC and sustainability stuff like EcoTect?

I know that Revit will continue to work like mad to get new features implemented but what about Graphisoft?
stefan wrote:
Brett wrote:
With a competitive rival now, Graphisoft has to inform users what they are working on for future releases. This secretive way they operate up to now doesn't seem to me that they care about their users. Every release is a lottery for us to see if they have finally included the basics we have been waiting for year after year.
Welcome to the world of commercial software development. Frankly, this is not that uncommon, it is more the rule than the exception. If you want a more open approach, you could try to look for an Open Source alternative to ArchiCAD (there isn't any) or switch to a company which applies Open Beta programs, such as McNeel for their Rhino3D NURBS modeler.
There is some truth in the belief that this mode of operation is not uncommon and more the rule than the exception.........in the nineties.

Fact of the matter is that it is rapidly becoming an outdated way of operating by completely keeping customers in the dark about products in development until the product is actually released. Virtually most of all the major software developers now have very active user participation in both their products' pre-release development as well as their pre-release advertising and marketing. And this isn't limited to just the Beta-testers' input. Revit developers (including its original authors, actively take part in the user forums to discuss the programs' features, shortcomings and even the path of development. And Autodesk itself has a similar approach to the other software in their stable if you consider their input at the AUGI forums. Or you could take a look at Vlado's involvement at the Chaosgroup forums for Vray. Or perhaps Chema at the Fryrender forums. These are the original authors of the respective softwares mind you. It used to be the same at the Maxwell render forums until they messed up with the RC fiasco, but they didn't completely abandon the open approach and now they have a designated liaison who deals with most issues on their forums; the developers themselves still take part from time to time, mind you.
At some point, all these developers realized the value of involving their customers at some level or another in the development process or at least being upfront enough with them regarding the development path of their products as well as what was and was not possible rather than making promises which they couldn't keep (of which GS have made quite a few in the past year alone) and then proceeding to keep their clients in the dark about it until the product was released. They all pretty much learned from NextLimit's disastrous PR management with Maxwell during its Beta and RC phase and now they're all better off just being upfront about it.
And the language barrier shouldn't even be an issue, as all the examples I gave, save for Revit, have developers who are either Spanish or Bulgarian - and yet still somehow manage to find a way to communicate clearly and frequently with their users.

If you want a bigger name in a different but related field, how about Steve Jobs previewing the Iphone 2.0 to full-on media event. Granted this is past the development phase but at least he's giving the head's up on the expected features prior to its release so that you decide early enough whether you'll want to buy one or not. I could go on giving you examples which I guess would qualify as exceptions by your definition until they begin to challenge the very distinction of which is the "rule" and which is the "exception". Obviously marketing has a large part to do with the way Apple typically handle their pre-release information, but then again when you consider the fact that they cut their teeth against behemoth of software developers - Microsoft, in mastering the PR game, does it really surprise anyone that they know a thing or two of how to sell a product.


Graphisoft need to have a more visible and frequent presence in these forums beyond Beta testers who "know but can't tell". I can't remember the number of times users raised issues regarding the Grid tool last year, and the availability of the Maxonform plugin before a developer showed up to address them but it was a little ridiculous.

They also need to address users more directly and honestly as to what's feasible and what's not possible in the wishlists section particularly in upcoming versions, rather than leaving them hanging with the false hope (delusion?) that each new version will bring a much asked-for Wish going several versions back. These are not unreasonable requests or expectations from a software developer, nor is it considered "whining" by most serious software developers, and indeed business operators who know and value the importance of customer confidence.

And to keep defending them when they chose to do otherwise, is merely encouraging bad business habits, which are doing nothing but hurt them in the long run, - and clearly, its hurting them in the present as well - against their major competitor; as they continue to fall further behind Revit here in North America, with the rest of the world to follow.

Rant over.

Spell-checkers, grammar correctors and serious responses, welcome.
__archiben
Booster
oreopoulos wrote:
This is a sophistry.
as was your argument in the first place, right?

if only yes men get in then rest assured that i would not have been involved in 3 of the last 4 tests . . .
Bricklyne wrote:
Spell-checkers, grammar correctors and serious responses, welcome.
let it go mate, it's no wonder you are full of anger . . .
b e n f r o s t
b f [a t ] p l a n b a r c h i t e c t u r e [d o t] n z
archicad | sketchup! | coffeecup
Anonymous
Not applicable
~/archiben wrote:
oreopoulos wrote:
This is a sophistry.
as was your argument in the first place, right?

if only yes men get in then rest assured that i would not have been involved in 3 of the last 4 tests . . .
Bricklyne wrote:
Spell-checkers, grammar correctors and serious responses, welcome.
let it go mate, it's no wonder you are full of anger . . .
Actually, I thought he made some good points. I don't know the poster well enough to comment on his anger level, but for the average AC user who is not in "the know" things are pretty frustrating.

Having used AC since 4.5, I've seen a lot of changes for good and for bad and put up with it because there was no good alternative. I do like AC, but from what I'm hearing, I have to wonder how long it will be before I have to give in and start looking at Revit.

Should I be worried? Am I wrong? A little bit of assurance from GS in some form or fashion would go a long ways in keeping the faithful AC community in the fold.

It may be that this is the way software developers have handled their business in the past, but things are changing. And hasn't GS always thought of themselves as a forward looking company? Since I am a nobody user, I guess they won't yank this post........only kidding.



Don Lee
~/archiben wrote:
Bricklyne wrote:
Spell-checkers, grammar correctors and serious responses, welcome.
let it go mate, it's no wonder you are full of anger . . .
Hhmm....

...first it was correcting my posts for grammatical errors, now you're reading my mood (over the internets. no less).

...careful there mate - at this pace, pretty soon you very well might find yourself (gasp)...actually discussing and debating the actual points I'm raising in my posts (Oh, the humanity!!!! ).

......and we rrrreally wouldn't want that to happen, now do we.