RoofMaker library part ?

[Steve Jepson]

Is there a library part I can use for a plate that needs to pitch in two directions?

[Steve Jepson]

Part of the problem describing which direction the plate needs to be rotated is because the beam2_1 variables are as clear as mud! Thats why I use pictures. How do you describe how the rafter rotates and and tilts when you select the "Purlin on Top of Rafters" option or the "Purlin Rotated" option. There are no clues as to what these functions are doing. There is nothing to tell you what the result of these selections is going to be. Also the ability to set any role or yaw is not an option unless you select one of these options? How would anyone be able to tell which of these needs to be turned on? I am trying to find some way to angle a roof so I can try using blocking for this. I think there must be a reasonable solution. Keep in mind. I have no problem modeling the plate as it should be, my dilemma is that I want it to be a part of my materials list. If i use walls, slabs, roofs, mesh, etc...I don't get exactly what I was after. How to do this is only a curiosity. The plate I used will be adequate for a material list.

How is anyone supposed to predict what these options will do?

[Anonymous]

Steve,
On the issue of how to tell what different parameters do in a
library part. The width of the text fields for the description
of parameters is very limited so scripters can't explain
what the parameter means or does. We have to rely on the user
to experiment and figure it out for themselves.
In AC versions after 7 this problem is componded
by the fact the parameter fields are further truncated
in the settings dialogue.

On the issue of material lists, can't you, after you have made
the shape you want using the AC tools, save the shape as
a GDL object with an appropriate name ?
Would that not work for your material list ?
Peter Devlin

[Steve Jepson]

Even with experementation you can not determine or quantify exactly what result of some of the parameters of beam2_1 will do. I would guess that only the person who ever knew was the person who created this part and they have probably forgotten. Some of the options are only functional if you select one of the others but you cant tell how which options will effect the others or to what degree. I played around with it for hours and did manage to gain some controle but not enough to make it a usable part for this particular function. It is not a very common applicaton for this part anyway.

As far as the material list data goes, I wanted to include this part in my interactive list for Roof Framing. My schedule adds together the actual lengths of all the rafters, hips, valleys, etc...I do not know how to add that kind of infromation into to the kind of parts I can make from scratch. This is an expiromental project that has every peice of wood required to build the house modeled perfectly. Including all blocking, bracing, backing etc...it includes lots of things that I would normaly consider to be a complete waste of time. This is one of the last parts that will go into the model.

[Ralph Wessel]

Steve wrote:
Is there a library part I can use for a plate that needs to pitch in two directions?

Steve,

All FrameWright objects can be rotated freely in 3D, either by using our Rotate tool which can rotate any selection of objects in unison or by setting the rotation parameters manually. Their are two rotation parameters for each object to enable them to be orientated to any plane.

I've set up an example in the attached image (fig. 1). You can use the FrameWright Rotate and Split tools to elevate the wall and trim the studs to the roof line (fig. 2). You could then Rotate again to align your view to the wall and place the top plate at the correct pitch (fig. 3). The other rotation for the top plate can be set by using Rotate again at look along the top plate (fig. 4). The Assembly tools can then automatically restore the framing to its correct position (fig. 5). The finished result is shown in fig. 6. Note that figures 1 to 5 were taken from the 2D (plan) view.

You can read more about FrameWright at http://www.encina.co.uk/framewright_pro.html

[Steve Jepson]

That is exacly what I want to do Ralph! I bet I would love using FramWright. Can you get a good materials list from it?

[Ralph Wessel]

Steve wrote:
That is exacly what I want to do Ralph! I bet I would love using FramWright. Can you get a good materials list from it?

Steve,

Yes - it has quite detailed scheduling designed specifically for framing, i.e. it calculates the true length of the timber and makes allowance for jointing if necessary. You can read more info at http://www.encina.co.uk/timber_schedule.html

You can also download FrameWright from http://www.encina.co.uk/software.html

This can be run as a demo by running ArchiCAD 9 without the dongle. You can also request a 1 month trial registration number from http://www.encina.co.uk/demo_request.html

[Steve Jepson]

I checked out the FrameWright product and I could only find one thing it can do that I can't already do with ArchiCAD. That was the abiltiy to layout all of the parts flat for easy editing. I dont think I would find that usefull unless I were doing a lot of timber frame plans. It think it may have some GDL parts I don't have also.

The only thing I need to be completly happy with ArchiCAD would be a object I can control the pitch and yaw with better, and I don't use that part very often anyway. ArchiCAD probably has this but I just don't know how to do it yet. I think I used to have an object that worked for this.

I have a feeling that RoofMaker beam2_1 is the wright part, but it is not working the way it is supposed to.

[Anonymous]

Steve,
"beam2_1" is not going to work for your purposes
because the "angle" parameter rotates the object
about an axis laying in the X,Y plane
not about the objects major axis as it should.
I have an object that I believe works correctly and you
are welcome to it, but in one of your previous posts you seemed to
indicate that the issue was not that important, so I did not mention it.

You wrote:
"Keep in mind. I have no problem modeling the plate as it should be,
my dilemma is that I want it to be a part of my materials list.
If i use walls, slabs, roofs, mesh, etc...I don't get exactly what I was after.
How to do this is only a curiosity.
The plate I used will be adequate for a material list. "

Peter Devlin

[Steve Jepson]

Send me the part Peter, I would like to try it out.

jepsondesign@comcast.net

[Ralph Wessel]

Steve wrote:
I checked out the FrameWright product and I could only find one thing it can do that I can't already do with ArchiCAD. That was the abiltiy to layout all of the parts flat for easy editing. I dont think I would find that usefull unless I were doing a lot of timber frame plans. It think it may have some GDL parts I don't have also.

FrameWright was specifically written to provide operations that framers could not do with ArchiCAD - they loved the software, but it didn't go far enough. Graphisoft featured one of our success stories at http://www.graphisoft.com/community/success_stories/oakframe.html
The full article can be downloaded as a pdf from http://www.graphisoft.com/ftp/pdf/OakFrameCaseStudy.pdf

FrameWright has a number of features which are definitely not in ArchiCAD (refer to the attached image for some examples):

- A 3D rotation tool: Any selection of framing objects can be rotated in 3D about a user-defined axis (reminiscent of ArchiCAD's 2D rotation). 3D rotation appears repeatedly on the ArchiCAD wish-list. A rotation parameter in objects is quite useless for this purpose because each object will have to be rotated and position independently. See http://www.encina.co.uk/rotate_tool.html
- A 3D cutting tool: Any selection of framing objects (including custom profiles) can be split by a user-defined plane, somewhat like the split tool on a slab. Objects can be repeatedly cut and rotated to form very complex shapes. Changing length by parameter or stretching does not deform or detach the cuts either. Doing the same through an 'end angle' parameter is really laborious by comparison. See http://www.encina.co.uk/split_tool.html
- All the vertices in the objects have hotspots irrespective of the complexity of the rotations and cuts applied.
- FrameWright provides working planes for 3D operations (as you discovered) and the creation of custom framing section/elevation profiles.

FrameWright Pro goes further with built-in scheduling and cutting lists, with options for timber grades and unit pricing, jointing, standard size increments, etc. It can also group timber based on size, type, etc. The dimensions of length/width/depth are always understood correctly irrespective of cutting or orientation. And all timber can be automatically numbered and labelled.