Quantity takeoff for composite elements

[JSecnik]

Hi i am working with composite elements for a muliti story building its my first project using archicad and i am self-taught so I definitely have a lot to learn. 
My problem is that i have a composite wall and it consists of concrete, insulation and plaster. The concretes model height is 2.81 m but the other two's height is 3.11 which is also Parent elements (whole wall) height. now i would like to create a component schedule where actual height of skins is shown. Because for now it only shows 3.11 for all three skins. What is the work around. Most of the post i found is that the best practice would be just modeling them seperatly but that doesnt seem like the right work flow. I am sincerly gratefull for any response!

Operating system used: Windows 10

[Karel Landa]

The posts you find are true in case you have a composite wall.

Problem is that the composite created with wall can get you correct area of the skin and volume as well which will reflect all the automatic connections based on building material priority and SEO (solid element operations) too.

But height is an parameter which is baked into wall settings.

One workaround would be to use complex profile and set height modifiers for each skin. For this to correctly show in schedule you should probably set a few properties for each material and then assign it in the properties for that building material, but I can't imagine to do this in a whole project.

[JSecnik]

So what im getting is there is actually no work around other than to build 3 seperate walls. I even tried creating my custom logic to calculate height and then to append it to materials of respective skins but materials dont allow for their properties to have expressions in them it says its unavailable. I also watched a video on this from ArchINTENSIVE 2023 and the talker had his logic written but from what i saw he also didnt use that many composites.

[JSecnik]

i am really gratefull for the response. Since untill now i was somehow able to find everything out on my own but have really hit a hurdle here.

[mthd]

Modeling software that seamlessly integrates with a spread sheet that has all the allowances factored in. Archicad is for Architects and schedules are not reliable enough for an accurate quantity take off IMO. I personally wouldn't use Archicad for QTO but that’s just my opinion and I don’t like errors creeping into my estimates. You need to have all your bases covered. If anyone here can help you to integrate an Archicad Model that has no data leakage in exporting to a spread sheet, then please tell us. Or show us how ?

With all due respect, being self taught is not the same as being highly trained and sufficiently experienced in QTO, Estimating and or in using Architectural CAD Software for that purpose. Your employer should pay for you to be highly trained and skilled in these matters before undertaking that level of responsibility. Just my thoughts in looking out for my fellow Archicad users.

You could consult an experienced quantity surveyor who has sufficient experience in the type of building that you are designing ? They could certainly point you in the right direction about what CAD modeling software is the most accurate for QTO & Estimating. All the best.

[JSecnik]

thank you very much, i was slowly coming to the same conclusion that this is maybe something archicad wasnt made for or not quite there yet but i also didnt believe it because it is supposed to be a BIM program. And my understanding of BIM is that 4D and 5D are essential for it to be a BIM project so that Qto is a necesary step.

[mthd]

It certainly can be used for BIM, please have a good look at the Contrabim videos where John Hallgarth explains the process carefully. I wouldn’t give up on using Archicad to model the actual building becuase that is one of the best softwares for that purpose. 

Formulas in scheduling is currently under research so that would only be in its infancy. It would be very nice if Archicad had its own native XL estimating programmed sheet built in that you can add your own macros to.

Someone here will definitely show you how to model that column as described above by @Karel Landa. And also how to report to a schedule. Schedules do help but a lot more is needed to provide accurate QTO&E.

I would also have a good look at the add on ArchiQuant that has a new name now becuase that has helped some here too.

Have fun researching. 

[JSecnik]

okay final question i may have gotten confused i should still model my building inside archicad but then take the model into another program where i should be able to extract quantities such as volumes width height surrface area thickness and such. I should attribute it inside archicad so far that i can do Qto in another program i am really sorry and am desperate for some guidance. And thank you for your help so far.
Best regards 
Jaka 

[mthd]

Edited: You can actually do quite a lot right inside Archicad with the help of C5D Estimating.

Please watch this video and others from Contrabim to help you out as to what you can do.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U7xc3zhdTSE

Enjoy !

[kmitotk]

There is no skin height parameter probably because the skin height could vary depending on how the different parts of a wall intersect with other elements such as ceiling, beams and slabs. 

If the skin height is constant then you could calculate the height by dividing the skin area by the wall length. You cannot, unfortunately, use the expression to automate the calc as component (Bmat) data cannot be used in expression, so you'd have to export the schedule to Excel and use the excel formula for automation.