BIM Server on Mac Mini Server keeps restarting: ideas?

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone. I recently buried under a tree, all of the PC's I used to facilitate my carbon footprint... I thought a fitting end to them all.

I'm new to Archicad and have a small office with an i-mac, a couple of mini macs and a mini mac server... I now have BIM up and running on the mini-mac server... imho ~ where it rightly belongs.... but the BIM server apparently doesn't play nicely with the other mac server's services and BIM keeps dropping out and restarting.

I'm not going to contaminate my office with the filth of an old PC .... but I really shouldn't have to install a dedicated mac just to run the BIM service should I? I mean.. it's just a file service after all.

Has anyone got a small office BIM up and running on a mac server without dropouts??

Regards
Gaz

[Anonymous]

Yes Karl. I was directed to that list by tech support before posting here.
Yesterday I stopped mail services and intranet web services, and loaded this week's new build. The problem has not recurred... fingers crossed.

I will re-introduce my web service (It hosts our QA system) when I get some breathing space and see if BIM still works. I'd also like to retain my own internal mail server for scripted archiving of client/project email to pdf.

I can see it is reasonable for larger firms to have dedicated servers. Seems silly in our practice.

Gaz

Karl wrote:

To confirm for sure: you have tried every single step (completely) in this article:
http://www.archicadwiki.com/Teamwork/BimServerStopsRegularly

Cheers,
Karl

[schagemann]

hello,

did not get a chance to post earlier - yes do we run a couple of bimservers hosted on mac mini's (server & non servers) but have not encountered such major problems.

can you please be more specific regarding what exactly happens, e.g. does it actually really restart or do you simply notice it going offline on a client?

also what size projects do you have running on your mac mini & what are its specs?

ds.

[Anonymous]

The server is a 2.66Ghz Core 2 Duo Mac Mini with 4Gb ram and two 500Gb disks one of which retains a backup of the other. The operating system is Mac OS X Server 10.6.7 build 10J869.

We have been using Datacad for 15 years and we are making a transition to Archicad. We therefore have just one project file running on Archicad with two concurrent users. The project data file is currently just over 100Mb.

When first noticed, two Cad operators were on line concurrently and both complained to me that the BIM server was dropping in and out. I opened BIM Server Control Center. From there, I watched the status of the BIM server go from "running" to "stopped" and then back to "running". While I watched, it did this several times without human intervention. I stopped "Time Machine", which was the only noticeable process under way at that time. When time machine stopped backing up the disk, the BIM Server behaved properly.

The problem recurred again but at that time I could not see that Time Machine was interrupting it. That's when I got concerned.

I appreciate the advice that you have several Mini Mac Servers operating as BIM server without any issue. Can you tell me if you are running "Web" and "Mail" and "time Machine" on them please?

regards
Gary

schagemann wrote:
hello,

did not get a chance to post earlier - yes do we run a couple of bimservers hosted on mac mini's (server & non servers) but have not encountered such major problems.

can you please be more specific regarding what exactly happens, e.g. does it actually really restart or do you simply notice it going offline on a client?

also what size projects do you have running on your mac mini & what are its specs?

ds.

[schagemann]

yes we do run web & mail services and use time machine as well.

here another set of queries...

which OSX server build are you running?

can you please confirm if you have time machine disabled and the problem persists?

if your answer to the above is yes, have you tried reinstalling the bim server yet?

btw. we generally can not recommend using time machine to backup a complete server (parts of a server seem to work reasonably well).

presumably you are aware of the backup process graphisoft recommends - http://www.archicadwiki.com/Teamwork/Backup?

ds.

[Anonymous]

I'm running Mac OS X Server 10.6.7 server build 10J869.
I haven't shut down time machine. Do you think I should need to? The issue has not recurred since I shut down Web and Mail.

I read the BIM server specific backup routine. It seems laborious so I thought I'd deal with it later.. when I get my head around the appropriate set up for me.... I've been relying on Time Machine to back up the Server system files (including BIM server)... and I mirror all office data files to a NAS (except for BIM dwg files at this stage).

As for our office drawing files.. these are mirrored on my offsider's new i-mac computer off site. We've done it that for years using PC's. He also uses time machine to back up those files to a raid enabled external disc... My imac has the same configuration with backups but I swap the archicad dongle around here with a mini mac in the same configuration, that my son uses two days a week... so there's another drawing file and time machine backup on that mini-mac. My remote offsider connects to the BIM server using VPN. Since we usually work on the same projects together, if one computer is lost or stolen, the file, or most of it, is recoverable from my office... and vice versa. If the internet is down, he could also recover it from his back up drive using time machine...

At any one time there are at least 5 copies of a drawing file.. the master copy is located on the BIM server, then there's one on each of two i'macs and one drawing file copy on each time machine backup of each i-mac....

At any point in time, at least two copies of the drawing file are off site. We can lose some work.... but it's difficult to imagine that the impact will be catastrophic. It also isn't difficult. We just use a BIM server, two imacs with raid enabled external hard discs and time machine. It's completely automatic.

I quite like time Machine but I've heard it isn't as reliable as SuperDuper. Can I not use superduper or time machine with the BIM server?

Gaz

schagemann wrote:
yes we do run web & mail services and use time machine as well.

here another set of queries...

which OSX server build are you running?

can you please confirm if you have time machine disabled and the problem persists?

if your answer to the above is yes, have you tried reinstalling the bim server yet?

btw. we generally can not recommend using time machine to backup a complete server (parts of a server seem to work reasonably well).

presumably you are aware of the backup process graphisoft recommends - http://www.archicadwiki.com/Teamwork/Backup?

ds.

[schagemann]

i reckon there is some other conflict on your setup - you might want to start checking your server logs for any suspicious entries based on the time the bim server shuts down.

regarding the graphisoft recommended backup setup, it basically allows the bim server to shutdown to create a full and hopefully reliable backup.

which brings me to my next point, any backup solution is only as good as the chance it allows for a complete recovery in case something goes terribly wrong.

in our experience on a machine level (i.e. server or client) only superduper can guarantee a full recovery, with relatively minimal downtime as it creates a clone including ACLs - which which amongst other things timemachine does not handle.

generally, we recommend having only one active file on a file server which is remotely accessible and that gets backed up properly, i.e. an incremental backup for version retrieval and an offsite backup with regular rotation to cater for any catastrophic events.

ds.

[Karl Ottenstein]

schagemann wrote:
in our experience on a machine level (i.e. server or client) only superduper can guarantee a full recovery, with relatively minimal downtime as it creates a clone including ACLs - which which amongst other things timemachine does not handle.

Going off topic a bit, but could you cite a reference to where TM does not handle ACL's or other things? Apple claims TM can create a complete restoration. I've not seen reports to the contrary for OS 10.6 until reading about your own experience.

Thanks,
Karl

[Anonymous]

Still off topic.... I've completely restored my imac to a new air-mac using Time Machine. It worked seamlessly. I had a look... Time Machine appears to retain periodic operable versions of the BIM server too. I intended to use Time Machine for quick recovery of previous versions should someone stuff up.... But also use SuperDuper to create a bootable incremental backup of the server and imac machines in the event of a hardware failure... I could boot direct from a firewire disk superduper backup in a matter of seconds. All that in the bakcground as I am an Architect, not a computer programmer! As an Architect I don't like having to consider scripts ~ even though I can. If I do it once... by reason that I am not a computer programmer I will forget how I did it for next time and have to start the whole research process and disrupt my work for days!! All of this ought to be seemless and an out of the box option.

Gaz

Karl wrote:

schagemann wrote:
in our experience on a machine level (i.e. server or client) only superduper can guarantee a full recovery, with relatively minimal downtime as it creates a clone including ACLs - which which amongst other things timemachine does not handle.

Going off topic a bit, but could you cite a reference to where TM does not handle ACL's or other things? Apple claims TM can create a complete restoration. I've not seen reports to the contrary for OS 10.6 until reading about your own experience.

Thanks,
Karl

[schagemann]

@karl...
let me just say we think time machine (TM) is a terrific product, first and foremost it is free (!) and does incremental backups very well (just love the interface).

in one of our server setups we use time machine as quick access incremental backup (there are nightly tape copies as well... ;0) of user files on a XRAID and there we continuously experience problems with restored files not retaining their permissions and ACLs - not too dramatic though as you can simply reset the access privileges.

there is also a problem with accessing the aforementioned TM interface via screen sharing - again easy to fix though: https://discussions.apple.com/message/8507850?messageID=8507850

although apple does not recommend TM for complete server backup, there is an interesting apple KB article on what TM actually backs up on a server: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=ServerAdmin/10.6/en/asafc284c9.html

however, if the data on your server or client is mission critical and you want to minimise downtime i would not rely on TM alone - which brings me back to...

@gazpacho40...
unfortunately, as you have discovered running your own server is not always a seamless undertaking - although apple almost manages to make it such. as usual it comes down to time & money, i.e. how much time can you afford to troubleshoot your system and not do any billable work or rather pay someone to do it for you.

back to the backups though: in a small mac based setup, we have made very good experiences with the following: TM for user file backup (on servers configured as RAID and clients - note: users should NOT save anything anywhere else than the server), and superduper clones on external HDDs with offsite rotation.

typically, this gives you all the protection and redundancy you need.

but back to your original query... have you managed to fix your problem yet?

ds.

[Karl Ottenstein]

ds,

Thanks for the education about the limitations of TM on OS X servers. Had no idea.

Agree with all of you on the benefits of clones. I regularly clone my boot volume to external drives (raw drive in firewire 800 dock) using Chronosync ($ - but has many other features) or Carbon Copy Cloner (free), two other options besides Super Duper. As you say, instant system recovery; also the ability to boot to different versions of the OS if needed.

Thanks again,
Karl