!Restored: CALCULATION: What do you want to do, what info you need???

[Laszlo Nagy]

Hi Everyone,

I am currently looking into ways to make some modifications to the Calculation-related portions of the ArchiCAD Documentation so as to improve it. I would like to ask for your help. I'd like to get a firm reality on how ArchiCAD Users relate to this part of the program.
My question to you all is:
- Tell me things you want to do with the Calculate menu
- Tell me what kind of quantity take-offs, schedules, Bills of materials etc. you want to create and what pieces of information you want to appear on these.
- Tell me what kind of Zone Lists do you usually produce. How do you do them currently and what would be needed for you in order to be able to do them automatically using the Calculate menu's features?
- Tell me what difficulties you encountered in trying to accomplish these tasks
- Tell me what parts of the Calculation portion of ArchiCAD seems most mystical and hard-to-understand to you.
- Tell me how much do use utilize AC's built-in graphic templates, do you find them useful or would you need different ones. Can you create your own using data provided in AC Help?

Thanks in advance

[Anonymous]

Dan,

Well said. Sour seeds are sown with marketing like this. When people I know ask me to demo ArchiCAD's schedules and take-off I am busy telling half truths. I think the same freedoms ArchiCAD allows in it's modelling commplicates take-offs..

Don't hold your breath.. I am not..

[Anonymous]

I LOVE the interactive schedules and a use them like crazy!

I am working toward completing a drawing template as well as drawing standards and layer rules that will work in concert with one another to automatically create accurate schedules of every component and estimatable material in the house.

As a result I have a ton of schedules, to mention a few:

Schedules (to include SF, LF, Cubic Volume & QTYs as applicable:
Plumbing Materials
Plumbing Labor
Electrical Labor List
Electrical Fixture List
Foundation Slab
Foundation Piers
Foundation Beams
Framing SF List
Sheetrock
Hardware (Door, Cabinet, Door Stops, misc)
FLoor Type
Window Paint Colors
Ext Trim Paint COlors
Interior Trim Paint Colors
Interior Trim Paint Colors
Interior & Exterior Door Colors
Exterior Door List
Interior Door List
Window List
Vent List
Cabinets
Countertops
Fireplace Boxes
Exterior Brick
Exterior Stone
Exterior Siding
Exterior Stucco
Exterior Cast Stone
Interior Cast Stone
Stair Parts List (Treads, Risers, Riser Cove, Stringer, Railing & Balusters)
Balcony Parts List (Florring,Railing & Balusters)
Appliances
Tile (Tubs, SHowers, floors, backsplashes)
Trim (Base, crown, paneling, closets, etc)
Flatwork
Landscape
Swimming Pool

Because I have so many schedules, its really tedious to manually place each schedule. What I would really like is if there is a way to place all my schedules in a master template so that as a draw and change my draing the schedules automatically change and adjust as necessary (or upon command, like we can do in plotmaker where you can update sheets manually or as a whole).

Does this make sense?

How hard would this be to do?

[Aussie John]

Paps wrote:
There doesnt seem to be a way to automatically take off the materials on the four walls of a room. The zone tool can be set to inherit the boundary wall and trimming elements materials and should therefore logically be able to reproduce this in an IS. This is particularly important for Interior Finishes Schedules.

Yes Yes Yes
At the moment you can get the material on each of the walls abutting the zone but only by reference line and non reference line. Unfortunately that doesnt help in putting out a useful finishes schedule as one wall may have the reference line on the zone side and the other wall on the opposite side.

All the info is there but we cant use it.

[Aussie John]

HANIEL wrote:
All I want is to produce a graphic window /door schedule where the drawings are all to the same specified scale.

It needs to list the actual w/d numbers applicabe toe each unit and possibly the total quantity.

Again Yes Yes Yes
controllable scale essential

Also essential the ability to group windows or doors by parameters other than the ID number. I want all my doors to have unique numbers. At the moment I can group the similar doors ( ie size and other parameters) but the different ID means I cant get a group of like doors with a list of the ID numbers associated with that type.

Also would like to be able to add annotations or other markers to the elevation view.

[Rob]

What would be great (but very complex) change is accessing and managing all that business with components and descriptors directly from the interactive schedule window like interface.
It is not hard to understand the logic of AC calculations but the frustration starts when you have to deal with non-interactive format of quantities, etc bill templates (a very clunky approach). Like I am not sure that the idea of gdl property objects approach really works at the end of the day... actually in my opinion this is one of the reasons why the calculation menu is rather unpopular part of AC... I know that would require to revamp lockstock calculation engine, however that could help refresh and make it more attractive to more users (as I know the AC offices around no one has ever seriously used that over here - and that says it all)

[Anonymous]

I don't really understand the fuss...I have used the AC for a project builder in Sydney that could and does a priced bill using multiple suppliers. The problem is that data always should reside as far upstream as possible. The simple answer is to plan the data structure of the pricing database well first in a standard package ie Access or Excel and export it as text files into AC. Make a couple of utility macros that let you choose a particular supplier allocation ie change a key fragment. AC has more than enough power to do this and can handle the 12,000 item entries without bogging down. As far as a change to eg tile sizes etc, you are changing a parameter...property object read this parameter and parametise the costing coefficient using this. Its a qs issue so its all going to require a stretch. You are exceeding the bounds of an architect so don't expect you will be running into this area without putting on the appropriate hat. The only complaint is the complexity of graphic output. The drag and drop ordering of output sounds like a good idea. It needs a couple of extra fields available for components etc too. What would REALLY REALLY help the average user would be the multiple property assignments directly to objects and elements ie Bypassing property objects and allowing MULTIPLE links directly to database items. This would mimic the behaviour of an estimator.
Regs
Mark

[Anonymous]

So it's 2008, ArchiCAD 11…as far as I can tell, listing and calculation has not significantly changed since ArchiCAD 6.5?

Over the past few days I've been beating my head against a wall of nonexistent documentation, to see if ArchiCAD's calculation abilities could truly price a structure for us. Finally, I've given up, and gone back to needlessly complicated spreadsheets, etc.
I remember similar frustration, trying to debug and figure out the Project Reviewer web interface.

[Rob]

I love this topic so much, I can't help myself here...

Tell me things you want to do with the Calculate menu
I would like to actually use it without going through one million steps and edit them bi-directionally.

Tell me what kind of quantity take-offs, schedules, Bills of materials etc. you want to create and what pieces of information you want to appear on these.
my list would be:
1. finishes legend and schedule organised by codes
2. electrical / lighting schedule
3. wall type legend and schedule with descriptions
4. joinery schedule with detailed description
5. steel/timber members (usually columns & beams) bill of quantities
6. doors and windows schedule (a proper one)
7. appliances schedule with a custom image for each item
8. fixtures & fittings schedule with a custom image for each item

Tell me what kind of Zone Lists do you usually produce. How do you do them currently and what would be needed for you in order to be able to do them automatically using the Calculate menu's features?

basically limited to area schedules (all sorts) only

Tell me what difficulties you encountered in trying to accomplish these tasks

1. obsolete system with the property object being linked to actual elements = millions of GDL lib parts with names that can't be understood = absolutely messy and useless system in reality
2. appalling and complicated UI, probably designed by a grocery accountant in 1985
3. too many steps to accomplish a basic task
4. not bi-directional
5. basic output is formatted to standards of young Bill Gates thinking of DOS 1.0 and type-o-matic editor

Tell me what parts of the Calculation portion of ArchiCAD seems most mystical and hard-to-understand to you.

formatting and creating the graphic schedule

Tell me how much do use utilize AC's built-in graphic templates, do you find them useful or would you need different ones.

I don't, we just do not use the bill of quantities in that format. It needs to be highly and quickly customisable and that' the very essential part of it.

Can you create your own using data provided in AC Help?

Have you read the manual? (I know you did...) anyway, you need to go through 42 steps... I will say no more...

[Rick Thompson]

1 - Output, Output, Output (formatting options, I don't count the graphic template as usable). Spreadsheet like interface with.

1 - Easier linking of property objects (as in directly linking to a composite in the composite palette).

1 - Data base management. (open back up after selecting a component (linking to property object) to where it was, not having to renegotiate the file structure).

[Steve Jepson]

Rick wrote:
1 - Output, Output, Output (formatting options, I don't count the graphic template as usable). Spreadsheet like interface with.

1 - Easier linking of property objects (as in directly linking to a composite in the composite palette).

1 - Data base management. (open back up after selecting a component (linking to property object) to where it was, not having to renegotiate the file structure).

Exactly!

And can we please have MORE CALCULATION UNITS ?