Next phase of subscription transition announced

[Richard Doll]

Dear Community Members, 

Following my recent Graphisoft Insights post on the Subscription transition update, we know how important this topic is for you as our clients and anticipate your comments and questions. To streamline communication, we’ve created this thread to gather everything in one place. We’ll also use it to identify topics that may need further clarification, which we’ll address on our FAQ page.

Please note that while we cannot respond to individual questions in the forum, your local representative is available for personalized support.

Best regards,
Richard

Link to Insights article: https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Graphisoft-Insights/Important-update-Next-phase-of-subscription-...

[laembert]

Please explain. In case I convert and in the future I will end subscription, which version will I end up with? If there is significant difference between conversion in 2024 and 2025, how it is possible we still do not have EXACT informations from local dealers?? 

GS FAQ

10. What are the options for customers converting in 2024 when their conversion period is over?

For customers converting in 2024, converted subscriptions will be renewed at the standard subscription list price after their maximum 3+3-year or 1+1+1-year conversion terms run out. Alternatively, customers may choose to fall back onto the perpetual path with their licenses. In such cases, their perpetual licenses will be upgraded to the then most up-to-date perpetual software – albeit without the SSA/Forward coverage going forward.

11. What are the options for customers converting in 2025 when their conversion period is over?

For customers converting in 2025, converted subscriptions will be renewed at a price adjusted with a similar magnitude price increase % as guaranteed until 2028 but without an exact % guarantee in the future. Customers may choose to fall back onto the perpetual path with their licenses during 2025-2028. In such cases, their perpetual licenses will be reset to the Archicad version they converted from subscription in the first place – albeit without the SSA/Forward coverage going forward.

[Karl Ottenstein]

This totally strange (to me!) policy was confirmed to us, making conversion in 2025 less valuable than converting this year.

Archicad 30 in 2 years will be the last perpetual license version.   Someone converting this year who later cancels after 30 has been released will get 30.  Someone converting next year, when they own just 28 let’s say, who cancels any time in the future …even long after 30 has been released… will not get 30 but will roll back to 28.   My opinion is that this is not just confusing for us customers… but utterly stupid on the part of Graphisoft as it further erodes customer loyalty (however much is left at this point).

[Paul King]

I think the near universal consensus amongst users I am in touch with is not to be bullied away from our perpetual licences, and once these can no longer be upgraded, and to simply stop throwing good money after bad, given that within 3or 6 years of converting, costs will triple.

Probably the single biggest reason for selecting and sticking with ArchiCAD, despite the much higher up front perpetual licence cost, and the ongoing higher staff training costs is the lower annual cost offered under a Select arrangement.

Staff training cost are much higher because candidates already trained in ArchiCAD are much rarer, and there is reduced practice attractiveness to potential new staff (further limiting the talent pool), since to most staff, lack of Revit skills and experience is far more career limiting than lack of ArchiCAD skills, since most other practices use Revit.

The requirement to pay such a staggering 3 years in advance just to secure the so called 'discount' (which is actually a significant price increase over current Select pricing) is a huge worsening of the deal - we not only get a price increase, but we must also pay much more interest on that money borrowed, and we face triple the risk of total loss of the sunk investment -  many of us cannot be sure we will be able to use the license for all three years;  people can and do get sick, they stop working to have a child or deal with other life events, or they simply fail to find enough work to make use of their licences. 

This is on top of the fact that with updates there has been a strong pivot away from architect centric development in recent years, meaning that for architects, we are getting less upgrade value for our money.

The deal has become worse for us in every direction - less upgrade value, higher risk, 3-6 years of higher cost, followed by 300% higher cost thereafter.

GS have just destroyed most of their customer good will, and their own revenue pipeline for 2030 and beyond.

Tough luck for those that do swallow the subscription Kool-Aid if (when) GS declares bankruptcy within the next few years, as a result of flushing away all three of its main competitive advantages over Revit - price, perpetual licensing & architect-centric development. (in fairness, that last item has already been sacrificed in an attempt to become more Revit-like)

Seems to me there is a high risk that those who give up their perpetual licenses or who do any work on AC versions more recent than V30 will sooner rather than later lose ongoing access to their projects, as they will be reliant on cloud subscription and hosting infrastructure that will no longer exist.  

So yes, the incentives are all completely backwards.

[The MR]

I have read all the comments on this topic over the last couple of months or so & as someone on 26 I decided to obtain an upgrade quote. Then I ruminated for a while over what to do.

Should I upgrade to 28 now to ensure I can keep a 29 or maybe even a 30 perpetual licence?

What will the upgrades entail that I will benefit from or even use? How difficult will they make it for me to open old files? The roadmap is unlikely to be an enforceable document.

The goalposts look like they are going to keep moving for a while yet & with the proposed 3 year upfront deal being talked about & how everyone progresses or regresses beyond that. The dust will take a while to settle to the Graphisoft new normal, obfuscation.  To which they have been exemplary so far on this subject.

I started on 6.5 so I've seen some great upgrades & a fair few not so great.

I had a very poor 12 months with Archicad in around 2021 with thousands of continual crashes & no fix until hot fixes were released so I have seen the worst of it when it doesn't work. But I stuck with them.

When 27 came out I couldn't see any solid reason to upgrade other than design options but I have done without that for 20+ years & doesn't really impact the way I work or use Archicad as I am by hand for for all of my concept ideas.

The cost to upgrade now is a lot more than I was anticipating & a cost to which I will probably not recoup based on any potential increase in my productivity for the outlay over the next, say 12 months or so. So in the end the decision was made for me. I cannot justify the outlay & I will not upgrade but (hopefully) continue to use 26 until I stop working for clients which is only 2-5 years away. 

I will now put up with its foibles, its occasional crashes, lack of formal support & the fact that my mac will stay on 14.7 OS Sonoma.

I've done simple & some incredibly complex projects in Archicad so it is a tool that is very useful but it is still just one tool.

I do understand many others are in a position where they are being stood over & forced into a position of eventually pay or be shut out of your own intellectual property. That hurts. Maybe in some jurisdictions that could be illegal. In AUS I don't think so (didn't finish my law degree) & anyway, it would be a long fight to find out.

Graphisoft have taken a hard line for on paper at least, their future bottom line. They had a lot of goodwill in the Archicad community. Goodwill has to be earned over a long period of time, which they did. 

A lot of that goodwill has been eroded over the last few upgrades but due to that original goodwill, the Archicad community by and large grumbled but stayed. 

Now that goodwill has been drained completely. 

[Marcel Cooper]

I've only just woken up to this issue and need to catch up on the relative costs but as a gut reaction and since V28 more or less works adequately, I may take a few years "holiday" from support, bank a bit of cash and then buy back in to the subscription model when I feel I am beginning to lag behind.....but at that juncture, I will review all the available BIM software and re-valuate before re-investing.

I may then remain with Archicad or I may move elsewhere, that is Graphisoft's gamble. I took a break from Microstation support between 2008 to 2014, banked a tidy sum and when I reviewed, I moved to Archicad so who knows, perhaps Autodesk next time?

Archicad are not alone in wanting to change the licensing model and I'm afraid this is what the future holds for us generally, but one thing I can promise you is that software companies are not doing this with the aim of earning less money, which means we are intended to pay more. 

[Patrick M]

ya know, if you get back to the point where you listen to users, work to develop tools and features that do what we need to, and most importantly develop some consistency and reliability in the program and user interface, I see no issue with hiking our annual cost 3-4x per year.
but is that really what is happening? are we getting 3-4x better support and a better product, or are we just paying more for the same 'good enough' new and incomplete features year after year? Yeah, paying more is definitely an important topic for us small business owners often skating by on razor thin margins... 
As for responding to indivudual questions on the forum, I guess that goes to my original comment. We've all kind of given up on that... But will this new leased license method get us bMats that actually work? oh, right, not taking questions... nevermind

[jl_lt]

i have talked about this elsewhere, but I think Graphisoft trully missed their oportunity window to expand into emerging markets and student markets with better and tropicalized pricing schemes, something i discussed to the point of exhaustion with local representantives.           At least in Mexico, as near as only 7 years ago, a significant portion of the market was still up for the grabs, as only bigger and fancier offices used Revit;   now almost everyone uses it, whether their project need it or not (ill let you guess if they all pay for their licenses).  What did Graphisoft did here? basically nothing.   its also very possible that something similar happenned in other latin american countries, give or take a couple of years.  

So, sensitive topic ahead:   What i discussed with these local representatives was the possibility of offering better pricing schemes if not a different price.  Consider this: the price of an Archicad License here in Mexico is more than what many architects make IN A WHOLE YEAR.  i wish i was kidding or using hyperbole with this, but im not.     How many folks do you think will be able to buy a license?    But if you offered a more flexible paying scheme... i dont know, something like the price distributed over 4 years instead of 1 with a slight increase to make up for the flow loss, it would certainly make a LOT of people consider buying the software.   

but now Graphisoft is telling these same people  that not only they will NOT own a copy but they will pay a price SIMILAR to a perpetual license PER YEAR, but only for rent. In the economical and cultural context of my country (and i guess many others) the proposal simply sounds ridiculous.  

"but they use Archicad in Switzerland" you say.  And we are glad they do, because they showed us the Archicad way.          But its an 8 million country. Lets see if they want to take on the burden of supporting Graphisoft as the only guys that can pay for the new pricing schemes. Its not like there are many Switzerlands or Japans out there.

So, the numbers just dont add up. The market you are catering to is not your Niche.   

MORE USERS (some of which might want to pay for premium features) = MORE REVENUE   its better than   LESS USERS THAT PAY MORE = MORE REVENUE

One is sustainable, the other is not. Contrary to what all the vitriolic comments might make you think, we want you to succed Graphisoft, just stop being so shortsighted.

(Here is another idea, why instead of interviewing your own employees, or in adition to that, you go out and interview Pritzker laurates that use Archicad?) 

[mthd]

Many of us have much invested into this software. I don’t think any of us really want to waste our investment. For some of us, Archicad has not developed in the way we would have expected. Like me, I am not a fan of paying subscriptions to anyone if it doesn’t result into an upgrade of a license that I will actually own.

It would be interesting to see the figures of who actually is taking out a subscription, is it new younger users who cannot afford a perpetual license ? I think our older generation of perpetual license holders will eventually retire and not be in business or in need of the latest and greatest in CAD software. 

We all pay for or invest in what we think would be in our best interests. If Archicad doesn’t bring the goodies to the table to attract new purchases then they can only blame themselves and the policies they have taken out. To me and to probably all of us, it is show us what we are investing in for the future ? Do we own a share or a license of the product ? If not invest in something else that you can actually own.

All the rent CAD software out there is of no interest to me or not worth investing in or learning or even using. When Archicad stops SSA/FWD then I stop paying the money. What others do is their prerogative. I have no interest in crying over spilt milk, I just go and buy another carton to use and that should suffice till I run out of milk again.

[rakurs]

Sunk cost phallacy - what we had invested before into our path doesn't mean we should stay on that same path. Maybe there will be better or cheaper software that we will be able to switch to. Or maybe Graphisoft will make another product, catered to our needs. Not likely, but maybe. This piece of software will have to do for me for the maximum duration of the Forward contract, but after that? I'll be learning something new, most likely, while using the not so latest and (very likely not so) greatest version of ArchiCAD, or even switching back to AutoCAD LT full time, or some cheaper knock-off.

I very much feel for colleagues in societies that don't provide enough revenue to purchase software at these rising prices even before the latest price hikes, but also I see myself slipping into that category as well.

[mthd]

I will still be using Archicad at the last SSA/FWD version that they can supply me with. I don’t really need the latest and greatest version of any Autodesk products that are offered either. Who knows what will be available as a lifetime CAD/BIM license in the future ? We will see !

[Martin Jules]

It's time to mourn ArchiCAD!

[Lingwisyer]

Maybe there will be some huge updates in AC30 and AC31, right before and after it goes full subscription, which will blow all of our minds! I do not believe...

[mthd]

Dangling carrots in front of the mule !
 
Negotiated latest term:

“Perpetual fallback: Customers opting out of the subscription program will revert to the latest available perpetual version at the end of their conversion term, rather than their original version.”

Convert to a sub at the end of 2024 might mean you can fall back to 2027 version and end up with AC31 after a 3 year conversion term with a perpetual fallback ? Stretching out the Perpetual Licensing to AC31. 

Like I said, they are now dangling carrots in front of the mule !

Any mules out there that like carrots ? I prefer mangoes (Don’t stop the perpetual path for all those who own a perpetual license.) Simple as that.

[thesleepofreason]

The communication continue to be abysmal - to the degree of negligence. So now we have a "subscription program"? Based on what they ask from users one would think they would be professional enough to avoid such conflations...  Perhaps the it isn't a good idea just to pretend to be "listening to feedback" in the eleventh hour and make some "refinements" communicated through a pretentious "dear all - we are committed to support you through this process" post all while the developers are down to hoping that the things they do actually will make the software better rather than worse.... And by the way - are we to expect further refinements if this wont take?

So what is the meaning of "latest available perpetual version"? We know that it is sooner rather than later and with SSA being terminated at the end of 2026 its at first glance whatever version is available then. But the thing is that the SSA just entails the supply of the latest version - not that there will be a yearly release so there is nothing stopping GS from keep servicing (charging) the SSA to 2026 without releasing anything beyond AC28 so why would they spend resources on pushing a dead end perpetual version higher than that just as a measure of good will for old times sake? If GS want to use perpetual fallback as a sales pitch then they will have to make this clear - otherwise it's just more marketing fluff....

[Kalib Stewart]

Exactly. What does latest “perpetual version” mean here? This is intentionally ambiguous terminology so GS has plausible and legal deniability. 

Either the “fallback” is the latest version of Archicad at the time we “fallback (cancel)” or it’s not and it’s a set version we should be made aware about before we commit to our decision to convert. It’s an absolute con if they get us to pay for 3 years and then

“whoopsies actually AC29 is the last perpetual version sorry”

Give us a damn straight answer for once instead of all these blundered miscommunications and non-committal open-interpretation statements. 

It’s so slimy.

This entire communication process has been one of the most frustrating and dishonest I’ve seen from any company. 

They’re trying to strong arm everyone into taking up “phase 1” before the year’s end but can’t even front up with some clear communication and terms before then.

This whole appeasing with better terms in “phase 2” also tells me there has been even bigger backlash than they expected.

[Barry Kelly]

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@thesleepofreason wrote:

So what is the meaning of "latest available perpetual version"? We know that it is sooner rather than later and with SSA being terminated at the end of 2026 its at first glance whatever version is available then. But the thing is that the SSA just entails the supply of the latest version - not that there will be a yearly release so there is nothing stopping GS from keep servicing (charging) the SSA to 2026 without releasing anything beyond AC28 so why would they spend resources on pushing a dead end perpetual version higher than that just as a measure of good will for old times sake? If GS want to use perpetual fallback as a sales pitch then they will have to make this clear - otherwise it's just more marketing fluff....

---

You should not suppose that Graphisoft will not release new versions in a yearly cycle (as has been done for many years now), unless you have facts stating this to be so.

Of course we don't know what will happen in the future (as we have already found out), be we should not start creating rumours.

Whether we are on SSA/FWD or subscription, we will all have access to the latest version so long as we continue paying the fees.

And I doubt very much that the yearly release cycle will not continue, otherwise all users, even those with subscriptions, will be affected.

I believe the last perpetual license will be version 30 in 2026.

So any SSA/FWD user renewing in the 12 months before the release of version 30, should be eligible for that version (30).

Any SSA/FWD users switching to the 3-6 year subscription now will fall back to version 30 if they decide to cease their subscription.

There will be no perpetual version beyond 30 as I understand it.

So if you subscribe and start using version 31+, then if you cease subscription, you had better back save all of your files to 30 before you cease, as there will be no way to do it afterwards.

Barry.

[thesleepofreason]

Where do I state or even suppose that they won't release a yearly perpetual version and thus "starting a rumour"? I'm saying that we need clarity as there is nothing holding them to it and that it makes very little sense for GS to continue do it moving forward - at least in a full fledged version sense. If GS want to avoid such a discussion leading to rumors they should communicate clearly i.e. the last planned perpetual version is AC30 to be released in 2026. Simple as that and if they can't even do that under these circumstances - well then... You are of course free to believe what ever you want about the future but accusing others of pushing rumours when pointing out the need for clear communication from GS and while you don't have anything beyond "it has been yearly for many years now so they wouldn't change it" is a bit rich. Or does it only work in one way?

And regarding your point about the effect of lack of yearly releases on subscription users - have you missed that subscription is allegedly, by GS, leading to continuous updates in contrast to annual updates? No - their little infographics doesn't hold them to neither keeping annual upgrades for SSA until AC30 or subscribers getting extensive continuous minor updates to AC28/29 pushing major upgrades off the annual cycle but not sure how it can be read in any other way than a move away from annual releases in the future?

[mthd]

Did you see the interview with the new CEO ? They explain why they are pushing so hard for subscriptions.

They want to apparently ease the pain of converting to a subscription model ? It’s not the pain we will feel but what they will feel for kicking us to the curb as many will simply not take on a sub.

[jl_lt]

"perpetual fallaback: customers opting out.." too early for april fools GS

[stoneunturned]

If they did that we’d all just take the latest version and run.

 If they fixed the immense publisher annoyances, clumsy click heavy UI (where dialogue boxes open on random screens if you switch offices frequently), lack of logical visual and obvious UI buttons, a global pause drawing updates button, and just generally listen to user wishes with a wish system that users actually want to engage with, by the time the last available standalone version, I’d see much less of a reason to subscribe.

On the flip side, if I know, with an extremely transparent roadmap, where I can promote useful ideas and help steer them with an ability to comment, or rebuke useless ideas (where it’s obvious that 3-4x their resource is being wasted ..hence a 3-4x hike in cost) then I might be keen to go along for the journey.

GS just need some management. I’s obvious there are no clowns on the team, but the team is in disarray.

[laembert]

I'm sure they won't