Intersection of different objects vs display order

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

I'm having trouble understanding the logic of Display Order in 2D plan view versus the intersection abilities of the Layer Intersection Group.

See attached example.

The two walls are on different layers, with their Layer Intersection numbers at 1, so they intersect. The wall going left right has a higher Building Material priority "strength" than the wall going up down (insulation), thus, in 3D, the concrete blockwall correctly goes through the Insulation wall.

HOWEVER, in 2D, by using the Display Order, I am able to override this, which seems counter-intuitive and dangerous.

Isn't this going against the purpose of this software? I.e. for 3D modelling to accurately represent itself automatically in 2D drawings...?

If anyone could shed some light about this phenomenon that would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ben

[Anonymous]

Barry wrote:
You probably wouldn't want to do that with a floor slab.
But maybe you have a bench top or shelf - add a cover fill and bring to front and it will hide what ever is below - if you want to do that.
Or you could add a 50% cover fill to your floor slab and bring that to the front to help show the extent of the slab.

Most of the time the default order is perfectly fine, but there will be occasions when you want to change it.

Fills for example will always default to the background - but there are times when you will want to pull these forward.

Basically if it looks good, leave it. But you have the option to change it if you want.

Barry.

Sorry to harp on about this but it's on my mind.....

The example you mentioned is a 2D element (fill) and a 3D object (bench top etc.). Wouldn't it make more sense if ARCHICAD forbids display order manipulation for 3D + 3D objects (like my example of the wall and slab conundrum) - but only permit display order manipulation to 2D + 2D objects or 2D + 3D objects (like your example of 2D fills with 3D objects)

Unless there's something I'm missing that makes sense for a user to be able to manipulate the display order of two overlapping 3D objects in a 2D view....

[Erwin Edel]

Floor plan is pretty much the only view that is not a true 3D projection. I find myself using drawing order (bring to front, send to back etc) the most in these views and yes this works with 3D elements. This also means you, for example, can bring to front a wall that would sit below a pitched roof, override the walls true 3D projection to a dashed line and create a 2D information that is understandable.

Some things are weird, but some other things can work nicely.

Display order works in elevations and sections too, even with 3D elements, which means you could partially hide added 2D elements with the 3D elements.

[runxel]

benjamin_chan wrote:
Wouldn't it make more sense if ARCHICAD forbids display order manipulation ?

Unless there's something I'm missing that makes sense for a user to be able to manipulate the display order of two overlapping 3D objects in a 2D view....

No, it wouldn't! Thankfully you can do this kind of trickery, sometimes it is even necessary.
(Elevations e.g.)

Sad thing is that it is often not predictable. (Like you hit the "down" button, nothing changes. And then suddenly it springs directly to the background.)

[Anonymous]

runxel wrote:
No, it wouldn't! Thankfully you can do this kind of trickery, sometimes it is even necessary.
(Elevations e.g.)

Sad thing is that it is often not predictable. (Like you hit the "down" button, nothing changes. And then suddenly it springs directly to the background.)

Not sure in what situation in a 2D elevation would you want to change the display order of 3D objects? (I am talking about the 3D object display order manipulation only). To your second point - yes - it is quite unpredictable....

Erwin wrote:
Floor plan is pretty much the only view that is not a true 3D projection. I find myself using drawing order (bring to front, send to back etc) the most in these views and yes this works with 3D elements. This also means you, for example, can bring to front a wall that would sit below a pitched roof, override the walls true 3D projection to a dashed line and create a 2D information that is understandable.

Hi Erwin, is there a screenshot I could see to see what you are doing. In my roof plans, I am able to do what you seem to be saying without having to resort to display order.

Roof plan view settings shows 1 story down.
Floor below (ground floor) has all its walls as "All Relevant Stories"
Graphic Override has a rule that says any 3D objects that has its home story on Ground Floor shows as dashed line.

[Barry Kelly]

benjamin_chan wrote:
In my roof plans, I am able to do what you seem to be saying without having to resort to display order.

Roof plan view settings shows 1 story down.
Floor below (ground floor) has all its walls as "All Relevant Stories"
Graphic Override has a rule that says any 3D objects that has its home story on Ground Floor shows as dashed line.

But remember that Graphic Overrides is new in version 20 - was not available in earlier versions.

Barry.

[Anonymous]

Ah of course...........got it
Thanks

[Erwin Edel]

Regardless of graphic overrides, I have coverfill on my roofs with a solid white background, so I don't think you will see those walls, unless you use the display order to bring them to front one or two steps.