ArchiCAD and Revit Evaluation Criteria

[Anonymous]

Greetings,

We're a mid-size architectural firm (50-75 people) located on the East Coast of the US specializing in commercial, educational, higher education, retail, and corporate markets. We've been using AutoCAD and ADT for quite some time now with SketchUp being used almost exclusively for all SD and DD imaging. We've come to the conclusion that these tools have out lived their usefulness.

We've started an evaluation process looking at both ArchiCAD and Revit. Our team (8 people) will be professionally trained by outside consultants so they can competently evaluating both tools.

We need suggestions on what type of information gets included in our evaluation criteria. Has anyone gone through this process with both programs? If so, can you give us any tips or directions on what we should be looking for? What are the current advantages and pitfalls to using either program?

Is ArchiCAD generally better than Revit?

Thanks I advance for any replies. We’ll keep everyone updated on our evaluation process.

mj2

[Anonymous]

Krippahl wrote:
Hmmm...

As a fellow Portuguese, I would like to apologize to you all in behalf of Refs. (???!!!)

Unfortunately he is a AC basher. I think it is a hobby for him, but could be a profession.

The same things he said on my blog, on a Portuguese AC forum, and even on a Portuguese Revit forum (where, incidentally, THEY told him to shut up).

So, please don´t judge a whole country from a single person.

Well, what a big joke this forum has become…

If you released yourselves of the taboo « mine is bigger then yours », probably it would be more useful to this discussion and less a matter of personal attacks.

In face of concrete and objective ideas, which I have showed in this forum, I always received rude and offensive attacks. I said, and stated very clearly, that I like to discuss ideas and concepts, without any prejudice or fanatics. In this case, it does not matter where people are from, if they are from China, Japan or Brazil..

I don’t understand why "Krippahl" is using my name to apologize on behalf of Portugal…. This is ridiculous… but if this is good enough to help you Krippahl, I’m not Portuguese… this is where I’m living at the moment… I’m not going to waist my time with this type of low level discussions…

All I wanted to discuss was the « evaluate criteria » between different technologies, as I did in all my posts

refs wrote:
I would just like to make myself clear and state the reasons (evaluation criteria) why I have chosen Revit

1st. I'm not pointing a finger at ArchiCAD.

I'm not trying to show its problems or imperfections. All I was trying to show was that, after using both, Revit's logic is more easy to learn (intuitive), something that, in my point of view, ArchiCAD is lacking/missing.

This is something that ArchiCAD should look at and, probably, learn from ...

I don't want to start a war, but what really makes me sad is all the "hostile" reactions that a few ArchiCAD fans have when I showed what I've quickly learned with Revit. Not sure if this was because they felt intimidated and started "attacking" my ability to learn. If you could do something in 2 steps, why should you choose to take the longer way? simply because it's more "changeling" and you know how to use the program because you've been working with it more then 10 years or so?

Just because of this, do not call me "handicap" when, probably, you are just misinterpreting my words. I'm not deceiving myself, creating an illusion around this software, I'm just stating real facts and I wished you guys just stopped for a few minutes and used the demo version to understand what I'm talking about.

I believe the evaluation criteria for this forum should be "productivity":

- Revit is "complete". ArchiCAD need "add-on" programs to make it do some simple things (ArchiStair, ArchiTerra, ArchiForma, ArchiRuler, ArchiFacade, ArchiTiles, ArchiPaint, ArchiTabula, ArchiSketchy, ArchiTime, ArchiWall, ArchiPanel, ArchiMap, MaxonForm, ArchiGlazing, Door & Window Builder, Archi-etc...);

- ArchiCAD will required learning a programming language called GDL. In Revit we work with parametric objects called families. We can model parametric families extremely easily without programming language. (We are not programming firm, We are an architectural and engineering firm).

- We can make anything we want in Revit, yet not in ArchiCAD.

- Revit it's now like a "platform" … has an MEP and a Structural packages. ArchiCAD doesn't have separate Structural or MEP packages.

- Real online linking with views. Revit revises views instantly. ArchiCAD revise them when the users say so.

- 2D drawings -vs- 3D Model: Revit is more concerned with the integrity on the drawing set (as built!) than its appearance. ArchiCAD focus the traditional "Rotring" drawing set to architects. ( i.e., stairs 2D plans -vs- stairs 3D model. We can't control the “cut view range” in this kind of objects)

- Revit has modelling tools that ArchiCAD is only adopting now (just some ones)

- ArchiCad had ALL the conditions (+20 years) to be "industry standard" and it was unable to do that. Why? Revit is a new product (born in 2000), with a different philosophy, at this moment, it's being the target of greed. For example, look at the deep differences in ArchiCAD10 and strengthened in ArchiCAD11 ... the interface is being simplified in the same way Revit is. Don’t like it? ... ArchiCAD looks like a new and refreshed program 😉 WHY?


Reasons that explain why I choose Revit. This should not be a discussion of what one software does better then the other.... not all programs are perfect, there are always limitations.

… leave the person « refs » alone, all it matters is the ideas presented, I have showed facts based on my experiences… I think, it’s good to everyone, to know the differences, resemblances and virtues of all BIM programs available (Revit, ADT, Archicad, Allplan, Vectorworks, Arris, Triforma, Arc+,...etc)… this was my purpose, which was always misinterpreted, and I no longer want to take part in this type of discussions… I don’t care and I don’t have time for..

What I learned here was, that there are « fanatic » people, that they are only able to see one point of view and don’t live very well with a different point of view….. to criticize objectively Archicad ( -vs- Revit) or other program does not mean I was bashing the program...

I hope you are enjoying Archicad 11…. Now it’s able to do more complex forms, it has a simpler graphic interface … etc….. it’s only missing « families » now..

"Discuss ideas and not people!"

.

[Anonymous]

Yes and no.

That would be like saying that choosing your next automobile is all about getting from point A to point B.

That is what it is all about.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

........what's that smell around here..................do you guys smell that?

Krippahl I think you might have stepped into something; - but then again, I think we all did - all of us who were foolishly drawn into this pointless debate.



Hhmm.........I think it............it smells a bit like.......like.......troll doodoo.


.......nasty stuff that.
best we all watch for it next time........doesn't wash off easily.

[Anonymous]

gbley wrote:

Yes and no.

That would be like saying that choosing your next automobile is all about getting from point A to point B.

That is what it is all about.

Yes and no....

It is about getting from point A to point B as fast as possible, with comfort, safety, economy and style.

Otherwise, everybody would buy a bicycle instead of a car (kind of like Autocad instead of Archicad).

[Anonymous]

not sure the bicycle analogy with AutoCAD is the best one to use, krippahl 😉

My bike is far more useful and versatile in my environment than a car... I beat cars around town consistently, plus it is zero emission, extremely fuel efficient and saves me from paying for gym membership every month. And have you seen some of the bike designs out there? Some are pretty stylish and high tech!

my ride for the weekend:
http://www.orbea-usa.com/fly.aspx?mid=a100&layout=viewproduct&taxid=226

[Anonymous]

Weston wrote:
not sure the bicycle analogy with AutoCAD is the best one to use, krippahl 😉

I should have added "in a mountain area", which is where I live

[Chazz]

Laura wrote:
Attached is an excerpt from an e-mail response to a questionnaire submitted to me by a firm considering AC vs. Revit

Excellent. Cogent, well considered and clear.

I still would have steered them to Revit, but then, I'm a nattering nabob of negativity.

[Rakela Raul]

This subject should be dedicated to mates that have expertise in both software.....and the rest of us: watch and learn only.

[Anonymous]

I was asked to discuss archicad & revit with the cad manager from one of our other offices. When we had our meeting, I was surprized to discover the company IT managers sitting in on our discussion.

I explained that after evaluating the current versions of revit and archicad, and having found both programs to be exiting tools, I felt more connected with the architecture while I was working in the archicad environment. The fact that I had purchased archicad with my own money obviously spoke for itself.

My report went quite smoothly with no interruptions (apart from a couple of polite questions), and then the IT managers took over the meeting with a report of their own. They had apparently visited this forum and the autodesk discussion group, and had done word searches for "crash", "problem", "no reply" etc.

This purely IT approach was an interesting way of comparing products, and it hadn't occurred to me when I was still evaluating the two programs.

If you are trying to get the full picture of these programs in use, you get a much better impression from genuine threads seeking support or user assistance than any which-program-is-better polls & threads.

The more I use archicad, the less I remember about revit, and as time passes, the less interested I become in it's features. Had I purchased revit, I am sure I would now be out of touch with archicad.

I hope this is of some help

[Anonymous]

Laura wrote:
Attached is an excerpt from an e-mail response to a questionnaire submitted to me by a firm considering AC vs. Revit (they ultimately decided on ArchiCAD). Keep in mind that this is based on my knowledge and experience, and some individuals may have conflicting opinions.

As you can see, we can discuss these subjects without any taboos, without any prejudice and the criteria's are perfectly clear, without touching any nerves. Laura has given this example which has elevated our level of discuss in this forum, many wanted it to smell like "troll doodoo.."

Thank you Laura, excellent post ...

I have used the sequence that Laura presented and I made a comparative analysis (excel spreadsheet in attachment), based in my experience, I gave points to both software (1=1 or 2-1) and I made comments.

Final result:

RV: 26 points

AC: 19 points



Please make this test and no cheating 😉 thanks