Modeling
About Archicad's design tools, element connections, modeling concepts, etc.

ArchiCAD is dying

Bruce
Advisor
I know that's a controversial subject line, but I believe it's true. Not because I want it to be, but because Autodesk is an advancing monster; ArchiCAD firms are switching to Revit, and Revit-based firms are buying ArchiCAD firms...and switching them to Revit.

ArchiCAD is a great program, but if it keeps going the way it is, I fear it will gradually dwindle until it's finally gone. On a level playing field, it comes out more or less even with Revit (I have done a detailed analysis that has been vetted by Revit experts) - but it's not a level playing field.

In my opinion, Graphisoft needs to do a handful of things to even the odds (yes, I will compare to Revit, as that's the main competition):

1. Rebrand & revamp the UI: CAD is an obsolete term. Even though ArchiCAD was BIM way before the term was even coined, I think the "CAD" in the name does it a disservice. Also, the user interface is old and tired. Should it go to the ribbon? No way. Should it be brought into the 21st century? Absolutely - there are plenty of excellent examples out there. Blender, a free 3D program, is undergoing its second UI redesign in about 5 years. If Blender can do it, Graphisoft can.

2. Introduce type-based elements. At the moment, pretty much everything is instance based. If you place 100 doors 900mm wide throughout the project, you have to select and change every single instance (this is an example, so please don't tell me the workarounds - that misses the point). Essentially, this is extending the attributes database to other objects. This makes project-wide changes so much more consistent, with no fear of missing an element.

3. Easier creation of parametric custom content: A beginner user in Revit can create a basic parametric object by using geometry and dimensions. It is intuitive and accessible. This does have its limits, but GDL is completely inaccessible to any but the advanced user with a programming mind...something architects and drafties generally don't have - otherwise they'd be programmers. A mix of the two would be extremely powerful - maybe an interface similar to Visual Basic, or Grasshopper? Not only for 3D elements, but also for 2D labels.

4. Better labelling & keynote tools: At the moment it's one label per element per view. What if I want to tag more than the ID? What about material, thickness, height etc. Revit is excellent in this regard, and also in the ability to create your label format as specific as you please. Key notes are also critical.

These are only four key improvements that I think are critical. There are many others that I could list, but this post is already too long. I say the above not to criticise ArchiCAD, but to try and help (misguided however it may be).

I could be wrong - I would be happy to be wrong...but the Autodesk monster is advancing...

These changes should be done the Graphisoft way: not to match what Revit does, but to equal and better it.
Bruce Walker
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Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
stefan wrote:
Navisworks is also a proprietary Autodesk application, only running on Windows. The ArchiCAD connection it had was halted to an older ArchiCAD release (r14-15-16) and never updated. It works with IFC.

I totally agree on the problem of requirements that stipulate particular software that is closed, non-cross-platform and from a particular software vendor.

That is not a software issue, but more a lawyers issue. Good luck with that.
Navisworks does have Export Add-Ons for AC17 and AC18 as well (they are free). They were released this spring. You can download the install package from here:

http://www.autodesk.com/products/navisworks/autodesk-navisworks-nwc-export-utility
NavisWorksExporters.png
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arg617
Contributor
OK, so exporting to Navisworks might work, but we'd still need to purchase it (for around $3k per year per license) whereas the Revit guys can just submit a Revit file.

Additionally, this only sort of takes care of the DOB issue. The other City agencies (see link to SCA BIM standards on previous page) don't allow this. They go even further and provide Revit 'families' to their consultants, which they must use in projects involving BIM.

The way they chose Revit as their 'standard' was by polling their existing consultants. Of course, as mostly AutoCAD users, they already had Revit sitting on their shelves.....
Anonymous
Not applicable
Lets not cheat our-self. Revit is not a shelf ware anymore. I have not seen Autocad design files for quite some time. It's all Revit now.
Eduardo Rolon
Moderator
…and I keep seeing Autocad files and never Revit files.
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Anonymous
Not applicable
Miki wrote:
..... It's all Revit now.
That is correct, the design team very closely controls and co-ordinates all data, The tenderers ie builders , contractors, sub contractors are given dwg and limited BIM on a need to know basis.
I suspect they have learnt these tricks/techniques here from the past mining boom.
Anonymous
Not applicable
We do not have problems obtaining Revit files. The proper BIMPxP language is all you need to promote the effective collaboration.
All the big guys here in US are using Revit. HOK, SOM, AECOM, HKS, ZGF, AECOM, etc...
Few years back we would see quite opposite, but not now. Probably since 2008 i have not worked with the designers that use Autocad.
Rakela Raul
Participant
I was told that two firms , here in miami,
are going back to cad


I also know that a couple of firms are looking for ac help...and
yes, revit everywhere
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Anonymous
Not applicable
laszlonagy wrote:
This is not something that should be taken as a promise or fact, but I am hearing news that GS may be working on a Rhino-Grashopper-ARCHICAD bidirectional connection. We already have Rhino-ARCHICAD one-directional connection, that's is a done deal since this spring. If this is true this is something that may be coming in the future.

Which makes me think about the following:
On other fronts, one can read in the news that Rhino for Mac is coming, and sometime in the (hopefully not too distant) future Grasshopper for Rhino will also be released. So if all these things happen, then ARCHICAD will hopefully have a bidirectional Rhino-Grasshopper connection on both the Windows and Mac platforms in the foreseeable future.

To me this sounds like a pretty good thing because the guys developing Rhino and Grasshopper can focus on those applications, while Graphisoft can focus on ARCHICAD. Actually, this is not a bad solution, in my opinion. At this year's AIA one of the big announcements of Autodesk was the making of Dynamo a stand-alone product independent of Revit. Previously it was part of Revit. So Dynamo (a Grasshopper-like visual algorithmic modeling environment) will now be able to connect to any other application as well, and will not be tied to Revit. Which makes it the same order of solution as a Rhino-Grasshopper connection to ARCHICAD.

We will see...
Hi Laszlo,

Just few thoughts on this, as I am both Rhino and Grasshopper developer.
Essentially Grasshopper is not (only?) some play toy, which most people think it is, for generating "cool" looking forms for Gulf or Chinese building market.
It's initial power lies in the ability to automate tasks, without the need to know programming.
For example, being able to create .gsm objects without the need of knowing GDL language would be one fantastic use of visual programming for Archicad, as somebody already suggested.

But if you know VB.NET, C# or Python, it enables writing plugins, easily and quickly which can be used for Grasshopper and Rhino too, as an automating tasks tool. So when it comes to Rhino, you can write your own Grasshopper component (those are these small blocks connected with wires) which can automatically do something to your Rhino drawing: for example: remove all lines from Rhino drawing of a certain length, or label your floor plans, even allow the grasshopper to re-dimension the floor plan schedule based on some room ratio area criteria.

All these Rhino-Grasshopper-Archicad connections and vice versa, will only deal with "cool" looking forms. They will not address the issue of being able to automate Archicad.

Just my two cents.
abdelaziz
Expert
a beautiful story that could apply to archicad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modo_(software)
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abdelaziz
Expert
the tool should not be an obstacle to creativity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwnkHommW-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYn9GMZfazE
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