AC Font Size is wrong for all text?

[Eduardo Rolon]

Is this incorrect?

 

Recently I had to import a specific PDF which had specific font sizes that I had to keep.

After import and exploding the PDF the point size in AC was wrong.

It had not changed size since the drawing was at 1:1 scale but what was 18pts in Pages, Illustrator, Affinity Designer, was "reported" as 12.5 pts in AC.

If I set the font size in AC and then exported the PDF what in AC was 18 pts became 25.4 pts in every other graphics program. Size didn't change.

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Why is this important?

Cad Standards minimum size for dimension text is 2.5mm which converts to 7.0xx points.

As architects we are trained to place as much information as possible in the drawings and this is why we try to use the smallest font size allowed.

If you selected 7pts as your default size you have actually been using 9.9 point size.

This means that you spent more time trying to fit/arrange dimensions because of their size.

If you were required to comply to a specific fonts sizes for a project (I had 2 where they were specific about this, one of them US Federal requirements, the other for a multinational) then you are not complying.

I have no idea what the legal implications are, but at a minimum I certified that I complied with all of my clients requirements as part of the project close out and this is not true. At least the font sizes are bigger than the required ones.

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How long has this been the case?

No idea but I defined my favorites a long time ago and I had not noticed any size change. IIRC there were some grumblings during Betas were fonts were behaving incorrectly but the fixes were not considered important enough to be fixed.

Tried it in AC25 with the same reults

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Hope that I am wrong but it looks like I'll be redefining favorites and updating dim size in my current projects besides talking with my insurance…

Somebody else needs to check the MM sizes and AC's windows version…

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Fonts size set in AC:

Exported as PDF and opened in Affinity Designer 36 pts is reported as 50.8 for all three font types:

In Affinity placed another set of fonts with the "correct" size:

 

Importing the PDF into AC and exploding. The correct font sizes are shown as:

 

 

 

[__archiben]

And whilst we're at it the bounding box for the text should default to the typographic point size (EM Square height)....

[Lingwisyer]

Given Points are a typographic unit, they should match the definition and hence be the same as every other program. On the other hand, when defining in millimeters, AC is consistent with aCAD and how I was taught how to draft letters between parallel lines, so...

[__archiben]

...so, what I'm proposing works for everyone. A Text Size and a Text Height essentially. Text size matches typographical sizing and is in points. Always. Text Height changes with your Working units selection and is the distance between your two parallel lines.

In terms of UI it's just one extra parameter that's always linked to the other based on that formula I wrote above. One changes the other and vice versa - it's a quick deal to text size/letter height issues and confusion, and brings Archicad in line with everything else. I suspect getting the line spacing/leading, etc. working properly would require a lot more under-the-hood work though...

[__archiben]

I think I have also now worked out that what Archicad calls "100%" line spacing is actually the standard 120% that typography suggests as the baseline-to-baseline starting point. So again, if I want custom leading (and I do because I have a font with a high 'x' height and need them a little more spaced out) I have to do the maths to get Archicad's line-height aligned with All The Other Programs line-heights.

Appreciate the difference between letter height and font size, but Archicad does not need to invent a whole new system for typography inputs. HCTPBWIW.

[runxel]

I think there are some misconceptions here.

The system as-is is already how it should be. The reason is simple: Archicad is not a desktop publishing nor a word processing program.

It might be worth to look at the history here, too. And historically type on plans has always been laid out based on their majuscule height. So much so that this is regulated in local norms, like the DIN EN ISO 3098-5 (or in this case so local its adopted internationally....).

This is of course the correct (and only) way to handle fonts (on plans). This ensures that two wildy different fonts, being on the same baseline, will still end up taking the same amount of space vertically.

So tl;dr: Archicad does it right and its behavior should not be changed.

[Lingwisyer]

I think the main issue is that by the sounds of it, if your units are set to imperial, you have the option of Points as a size, which given that it is a typography unit, should be consistent with typography programs.

[__archiben]

I'm wondering why it couldn't/shouldn't work both ways?

A font's metrics are built in to the font file itself. Specify the "Font Size" (pts) or the "Letter Height" (mms/ins/pts) and they pop up as you want to see them and as their own designer expects them to - doesn't bother me which way you want to do it, but why stop me? Back in the day Plotmaker was actually pretty handy as a DTP application. Of course it's not as fully featured as something like InDesign, but in the early stages of a project why not allow presentation work to be published straight out of Archicad? Skip the need for AnotherApp.

[__archiben]

This is the biggest issue. Regardless of how you want to specify your Font Size/Letter Height, using a typographic point as a unit of measure in the Text tool is just a confusion. You don't get want you are expecting.