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Intentionally create Lines between Elements w/ same Surfaces

JaredBanks
Booster
So coplanar elements with identical surfaces merge in elevation so that there faces read as one. This is a good thing.

BUT...

what about when you don't want there? For instance modeling framing, I want all the elements to be the same Building Material and Surface, but I want each element to read as discrete.

Anyone know how to make this happen?

I've thought about Complex Profiles with curved corners, but that is tricky, not real, and works great in one direction but gives extra lines in the other direction, plus when you look at the ends of the elements they aren't rectangular.

I could just fake it by changing surfaces of adjoining materials, but that isn't efficient enough.

Thoughts?
Jared Banks, AIA

Archicad blog: www.shoegnome.com
Archicad tutorial videos: https://www.youtube.com/shoegnome
14 REPLIES 14

Eduardo Rolon
Moderator
Layer Set Number saved with the view?
Besides creating another Surface or BMat with different name.
eduardo rolón AIA NCARB
Another of the forum moderators.
Macbook Pro 2.4 i9 32GB ram
OS X 10.XX latest
AC25 US/INT -> AC08

Anonymous
Not applicable
Jared,
I would move the elements apart by a fraction of a mm as in reality the elements would always have a small air gap between them unless they are glue laminated for welded but then you would have the thickness of the glue or weld between them
Scott

JaredBanks
Booster
Different layer interesection groups would keep them from merging in 3D which is another effect I'll need, but it wouldn't create the line I'm looking for. I fear the different surface/BMat is what I'll have to do.

Scott, keeping them a mm apart would cause too many other issues and I think in this situation would be more cumbersome than dealing with different Surfaces.
Jared Banks, AIA

Archicad blog: www.shoegnome.com
Archicad tutorial videos: https://www.youtube.com/shoegnome

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
Jared, if you dare messing with Registry settings, then you should check the "Line Eliminate Options" folder in the registry editor.

In Windows:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\GRAPHISOFT\ArchiCAD-64\ArchiCAD-64 17.0.0 INT R1\Line Eliminate Options

I don't know the Mac equivalent.

For example, there is a "Check Materials" option that might do what you want, I have not tried.
....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
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JaredBanks
Booster
Thanks. I don't dare!

I was talking to Monte at GSNA and he suggested something similar. If this were a different kind of project, I'd go that route, but I also need something I can easily give to/explain to non-gurus...

I need to check that out though. Just to know.
Jared Banks, AIA

Archicad blog: www.shoegnome.com
Archicad tutorial videos: https://www.youtube.com/shoegnome

KeesW
Contributor
I find it encouraging that experienced gurus such as Jared sometimes find the same issues as less skilled users such as myself. I have played with registries at various times and they aren't too frightening. However, in this case, I suspect that changing it in the registry, if possible, will change it for all instances - and most times we don't want it! Lines are needed especially when drawing details or surfaces which use the same materials but need to be separate, or butted. A default to choose which option one wants to use when drawing would be the best way to go. I've tried doing it by spacing components but it really messes with dimensioning.
Cornelis (Kees) Wegman

cornelis wegman architects

AC 5 - 25 Dell XPS 8940 Win 10 1TB SSD 2TB HD RTX 3070 GPU
Desktop: Archicad 5.5 - 25, Win10 64, Core i7 , 16 GB RAM, NVidia GTX560 Ti, 1.5TB HD, 500GB SSD

Laptop: Archicad 16 - 24, Win10 64 Core i7, 8GB RAM, 2GB NVidia GT 540M

Barry Kelly
Moderator
Changing the registry will only affect the machine you are working on and will affect all jobs until you change it back.
As soon as you open the same job on another machine there will be no change unless you alter the registry there as well.

Layer priority numbers will not affect two surfaces that are in the same plane and touching.
They will still blend as if one surface - it will just stop the mitring at corners.

In 3D if using the Internal Engine you can set contours to 'Draft' but this won't affect your elevations.

The best way I know is to duplicate your material and give them slightly different names - i.e. 'brick_01' & 'brick_02'.
Then assign a different material to each adjoining surface.

Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

For this I just use duplicate materials. With ArchiCAD17 you can assign the same surface finish to it, even the same fill, just give the material a different name. Most common one for me is having 4 different Wood materials for prefabricated wood structures. For windows and doors we use different surfaces for frame, door and turning-parts (sorry don't know a good english translation for this one). This keeps them from merging, as windows/doors don't use building materials (yet).
Erwin Edel, Project Lead, Leloup Architecten
www.leloup.nl

ArchiCAD 9-24 NED FULL
Windows 10 Pro
Adobe Design Premium CS5

KeesW
Contributor
If you create materials with different names, doesn't AC automatically create unique numbers for it.If so, do you also need to allocate different colours or will the distinctive names do the job?
Cornelis (Kees) Wegman

cornelis wegman architects

AC 5 - 25 Dell XPS 8940 Win 10 1TB SSD 2TB HD RTX 3070 GPU
Desktop: Archicad 5.5 - 25, Win10 64, Core i7 , 16 GB RAM, NVidia GTX560 Ti, 1.5TB HD, 500GB SSD

Laptop: Archicad 16 - 24, Win10 64 Core i7, 8GB RAM, 2GB NVidia GT 540M

The smallest distinction I have besides name is a difference in intersection priority. Another example would be having different types of concrete material. Using the same fill, same surface, but different priorities.
Erwin Edel, Project Lead, Leloup Architecten
www.leloup.nl

ArchiCAD 9-24 NED FULL
Windows 10 Pro
Adobe Design Premium CS5

Barry Kelly
Moderator
KeesW wrote:
If you create materials with different names, doesn't AC automatically create unique numbers for it.If so, do you also need to allocate different colours or will the distinctive names do the job?
Yes creating a new material will create an attribute with a new attribute index number.
The index numbers are always unique but I don't think you can have two attributes with exactly the same name either.

Archicad really doesn't care about the name, it is the index number that it is actually using but from a user's view we don't see that number.

The materials can have exactly the same colours, vectorial fills, textures, etc., but because they are 2 separate materials with 2 unique index numbers they will be treated as completely different.

Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

JaredBanks
Booster
If this were ArchiCAD 16 or earlier, I think the multiple Surfaces would be the right solution—remember we can't say Materials anymore! But that's not very-BIM centric. And to do that with every piece of lumber in a house gets too cumbersome. I am hoping for an automatic solution that lets me keep everything the same Surface and BMat. Otherwise I'm copying and changing Surfaces all the time. Don't want that.

I was thinking about making all my Complex Profile rectangular sections clipped 1/16" or less at the corners. The angle will create three lines at each joint but it'll be so small it'll merge into 1. That works for columns and beams, but not roofs or slabs. since CPs don't work for those.

I can solve the roofs and slabs by setting all the edges of the roofs and slabs to 89.9. This will be impossible to see, doesn't affect top surface area, and I don't care about the slight decrease in volume (which would be negligible anyways). But it will create a line between elements.

For the columns and beams, I'm also exploring setting the layers to wire frame. Since I'm not seeing elements behind elements (for another reason), wireframe would work. And, FYI, setting to wireframe creates outlines of the elements in 2D and ignores surfaces. Try it out. Not sure if that'll create other issues for me down the line. So might lean towards Complex Profiles with clipped corners.
Jared Banks, AIA

Archicad blog: www.shoegnome.com
Archicad tutorial videos: https://www.youtube.com/shoegnome

Barry Kelly
Moderator
JaredBanks wrote:
I was thinking about making all my Complex Profile rectangular sections clipped 1/16" or less at the corners. The angle will create three lines at each joint but it'll be so small it'll merge into 1. That works for columns and beams, but not roofs or slabs. since CPs don't work for those.
This will work for profiles stacked on top or next to each other.
But not for those placed end to end.
You'll still need different surfaces.

You'll be glad to know in 18 that a single profile can be split and use the same Building Materials in the fills and the lines between will remain.
So the old 'cross on a beam' problem can be solved just by splitting the profile fill - no need to change materials.

Still has a problem joining two separate elements though.
19 maybe?

Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

JaredBanks
Booster
end to end. Crap. You're right. I meant to double check the like-fills not merging in a Complex Profile today, then I forgot. Thanks for the confirmation. That will be wonderful for a lot of graphics.

Fortunately for this project, the sectional qualities aren't an issue. But end to end is... Damn. I think that once again suggests wireframe for plates... that might be infrequent enough that I could handle with a different surface. Need to run the first test.

Thanks.
Jared Banks, AIA

Archicad blog: www.shoegnome.com
Archicad tutorial videos: https://www.youtube.com/shoegnome

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