Ability to Change Story Levels Without Moving the Elements

[Damijan G]

Please add the ability to adjust Story Levels subsequently later during design process with keeping the elements linked or associated with in their present relative positions. Reasons: tidying up the project, better control of Floor Plan Cut Line setting which i.e. cannot be set negative, so in the case of a misplaced Story Level (too high) one can only change the design by manually moving all the linked elements back to their modelled place, which can be tedious and error prone work also in smaller projects.

Thank you for your great work!

[Barry Kelly]

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@Damijan G wrote:

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Barry, it is usually the other way arround. The "cabinets" get modelled with an offset to a storey (due to haste negligence mostly) and then you later want to put the Storey line to its proper position (with three clicks preferably).

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I still don't get it.

If the cabinets are getting modelled with an offset because the storey levels are wrong, then I would fix the storey levels and model without the offset.

I wouldn't be modelling elements allowing for an error with the storey setup.

That is just asking for trouble.

If they are to be modelled with a deliberate offset (say to allow for a floor finish), then I expect that offset would remain when you adjust the storey.

Let's just say you have a reason for your wish.

I don't understand that reason, so I won't be liking it, but others can if they think it is resonable.

I am just trying to figure out if you are making hard work for yourself - which in my opinion it seems you are.

Barry.

[Barry Kelly]

So the lower storey roofs and canopies were modelled in the second storey or maybe a roof storey?

Sounds to me like they should have been modeled in the ground storey.

Then they would not have moved.

Barry.

[Damijan G]

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I still don't get it.

If the cabinets are getting modelled with an offset because the storey levels are wrong, then I would fix the storey levels and model without the offset.

I wouldn't be modelling elements allowing for an error with the storey setup.

That is just asking for trouble.

If they are to be modelled with a deliberate offset (say to allow for a floor finish), then I expect that offset would remain when you adjust the storey.

Let's just say you have a reason for your wish.

I don't understand that reason, so I won't be liking it, but others can if they think it is resonable.

I am just trying to figure out if you are making hard work for yourself - which in my opinion it seems you are.

Barry.

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There is no other reason than being lazy (or I prefer negligent, because we all work hard, or just not wanting to be bothered with BIM managing issues during concept design stages) and these things just happen. And it's not about the cabinets, we don't intentionally model them with an offset. I don't do it because I am a proficient user of Archicad, but it happens quite a lot, especially while designing in 3d where the building sort of happens with freely rearanging elements to achieve the proper "form" and not through a deliberated "engineering" process which comes later.
As the office's "undesignated BIM manager" I frequently have to deal with these issues. Attached is a very simple recent example where the model was modeled in 3d over a Pointcloud underlay of the existing building so there was no premeditated BIM model managing moment. Later, while documenting the colleague found out there were problems with setting the proper floor plan display of the timber structure because the attic story was set (or rather left as set in the template) at the wrong level and of course we cannot have negative Floor Cut Plane Height value.

The quickest workaround in this case was to delete the attic storey and move all the elements other than the roof to ground floor. This task took about 1 hr to sort out everything in all the set views because also the connections were not set properly, and it's a 13 m2 building. Hovewer, as said, it can happen also on much more complex projects, multistorey, split level, etc. so sometimes there is a need to micromanage the Storey Levels subsequently for documentation purposes.

Thank you for all your thoughts and effort! I think the matter is clear here, whether Graphisoft will aknowledge it is I guess a matter of a higher force...

 

[Lingwisyer]

If you have not started, or only just started setting up all of your views and have not really done any manual drafting yet, you can sometimes make do by starting a new file and utilising hotlinks.

You create a new file,

Set the correct storey heights,

Hotlinking your existing model into the new file retaining the original elevations,

Break the hotlink and with groups enabled, ungroup the model.

You could possibly repeat this process into your original file if you have started doing 2D work.

Ling.

[Ben D]

Another perfectly valid reason:  After much concept design (for which you need things to be in proper storeys and not all in a single storey, to work properly on drawings), we receive engineering advice that means a floor level must be raised to accomodate a thicker slab, or a transfer beam, say.  so the floor level needs to go up (and for all the elevations etc to work, the storey level needs to change) but everything else needs to stay where it is relative to project 0.  window sills and heads.  walls.  ceilings, etc.  I just need to shift the storey height up to allow for my extra structure.  the finished floor level goes up, but everything else needs to stay where it is. if I'm raising one floor level by say 300mm,  I want to keep all other storeys at their same height (not relative floor to floor difference) along with all the elements attached to them.  so if I have a wall with a base that is currently 0mm above its storey height and a top at 3000mm, and I need to come in and raise the floor 300mm, then the base of that wall should end up at -300mm and the top at 2700mm relative to storey set height.  the ceiling shouldnt move.  the windows shouldnt move.  the existing floor slab shouldnt move in 3d space, but it goes from slab top at 0mm above FFL, to -300 above FFL.  I can then put in my new 300mm slab/structure as required by the engineer, and the top of this new element then sits at 0mm relative to the adjusted storey height, and it all looks right on the drawings.  Designs evolve.  It is quite often not possible to determine final storey heights until quite late in the design stage, and sometimes even later if changes are required after planning submission, or circumstances (budget, scope, urban planning guidelines, etc) change mid-design.  its not always laziness or lack of skill of the modeller. 

Ben.

[AllanP]

does this not fix these sorts of problems?

[Damijan G]

Yes, as said these are all good ideas and workarrounds we use every time. And yes the problem is there is a lot of 2D drafting done along the way where this solution is not aplicable as a "one click" solution.

[stoneunturned]

Fully in support of a simple means of adjusting the story without moving all the elements associated with a story. Example below that led to me googling this and arriving here.

Colleague handed me this project to take to consent. The L1 FFL hadn't been attended to by my colleague before handoff, and was only noticed at RFI stage. Slapped wrist for me but Damijan is correct, there needs to be ease of editing story levels between design stage and developed design. The state of the 3D sketch model that gets handed down can be woeful sometimes and is often in need of quick changes.

In the example below, known tactics can be employed, in this case, grouping al L1 3D elements, relinking all 3D elements to 0 Ground, adjusting L1 story elevation and then relinking L1 group back to L1 story.. Would be perfect for the level to just rise in all views and for all connected element's elevation-to-story to adjust dynamically.

L1 story at incorrect elevation

L1 at correct elevation but all elements taken up with story amendment and now at incorrect elevation

Put simply, and as already mentioned, would be great to just pull that story up (perhaps in section/elevation) without affecting elements.

Perhaps a one click solution can be buried in a menu somewhere so the normal operation of AC's story system is preserved.

[Lingwisyer]

Thinking about it, you could probably use the 3D marquee and do the above with MODs. No need to start a second file then.

[Corneel Baert]

Indeed this is also the reason I would like the function.

Often during a renovation the story levels will rise AFTER work has started because of unexpected problemns (like slightly inclined old floors etc.)  This means I often need to recalibrate the story height AFTER drawing the complete project. (while nothing moves) At the moment this is almost impossible to realize. A function like this would make this very simple and effecient.